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chiswick72

747-400 5th Engine

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Hey guys,Is it still customary to carry spare engines on a 5th pod on the wing? I remember some old pictures with it but never a recent one.Best regards,Armen at EGLLwww.veryquiet.com

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Guest Jeff_DCA

Not customary, but all 747's have the option to carry a fifth engine pod if so required by the airline (taking it to a stranded company aircraft with a tech engine for example).Here are some examples, both in the past and recently, showing the feature on all 4 747 models:http://www.airliners.net/open.file/136725/L/http://www.airliners.net/open.file/223750/L/http://www.airliners.net/open.file/240514/L/http://www.airliners.net/open.file/731258/L/http://www.airliners.net/open.file/340405/L/http://www.airliners.net/open.file/289429/L/http://www.airliners.net/open.file/286520/L/Hope this helps :-)Cheers,Jeff

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Guest cargo747

As an alternative, you might wish to contact a freighter airline that can carry your "spare- and/or replacement engine" in a dedicated 744F... :-)Cheers,Norbert - CLX001CEO Virtual Cargoluxwww.virtualcargolux.orgpmdg_banner.gif

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A Qantas flight left Sydney several years with 5 engines and arrived in Singapore with 4. Fortunately the one that fell off was not operational. During the flight an indignant and quite inebriated passenger advised the flight crew that an engine had gone missing. He was told the 747 had 4 engines - 2 port and 2 starboard and that as he could see from the window all were still in place. He was quite insistent that they had 5 when they left and that now there were only 4. The crew never admitted to him that they did indeed have a 'spare' and that it had mysteriously disappeared. He didn't touch another drop (by choice) for the rest of the flight after the discussion on the matter.Andy b

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Wow,Some excellent pictures and facts! John are you serious about only RB211-524 powered 747-400s can do it ?? Is it a thrust power issue or something else ?!All the best.Armen at EGLLwww.veryquiet.com

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"A Qantas flight left Sydney several years with 5 engines and arrived in Singapore with 4. Fortunately the one that fell off was not operational." Qantas? I thought I would have heard about that???Do you have any details on it, Andy? It was in the last 30 years, wasn't it?I tried Googling for it, but only came up with this old chestnut (hundreds of references to it)..."After every Qantas Airlines flight, pilots complete a gripe sheetwhich conveys to the mechanical problems encountered with the aircraftduring the flight that need repair or correction. The form used is apiece of paper on which the pilot completes the top part listing theproblem, which the mechanics read and then respond in writing on thelower half of the form what remedial action was taken, so the pilot onthe next flight of that plane can review the form before taking off.Never let it be said that ground crews and engineers lack a sense ofhumor.Here are some actual logged maintenance complaints and responses withP= the problem logged by the pilot, S = the solution and action takenby engineers. Qantas, by the way, is the only major airline that hasnever had an accident.P: Left inside main tire almost needs replacement.S: Almost replaced left inside main tire.P: Test flight OK, except auto-land very rough.S: Auto-land not installed on this aircraft.P: Something loose in cockpit.S: Something tightened in cockpit.P: Dead bugs on windshield.S: Live bugs on back-order.P: Autopilot in altitude-hold mode produces a 200 feet per minutedescent.S: Cannot reproduce problem on ground.P: Evidence of leak on right main landing gear.S: Evidence removed.P: DME volume unbelievably loud.S: DME volume set to more believable level.P: Friction locks cause throttle levers to stick.S: That's what they're there for.P: IFF inoperative.S: IFF always inoperative in OFF mode.P: Suspected crack in windshield.S: Suspect you're right.P: Number 3 engine missing.S: Engine found on right wing after brief search.P: Aircraft handles funny.S: Aircraft warned to straighten up, fly right and be serious.P: Target radar hums.S: Reprogrammed target radar with lyrics.P: Mouse in cockpit.S: Cat installedJust for reference:Qantas has never called the Technical Log Book a "gripe sheet".Qantas don't have transponder panels marked "IFF" (no civilian airliner would)There is no way one could accidentally think that a Qantas aircraft would have an autoland system and it didn't. Qantas aircraft don't have "target radar" (no civilian airliner would)There are no friction locks on any of the Qantas aircraft I have worked on#3 engine missing, obviously refers to a piston engined aircraft (AFAIK, Qantas haven't had any four engined piston powered aicraft since our last DC4 was sold).Any engineer would get reprimanded for making comments like these.Qantas have had no fatalities, but it would be incorrect to say that they have never had an "accident".Ancient chinese proverb... "Believe nothing that you hear and only half of what you see" ;-)Cheers.Ian.

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I dont think that is quite right JT.I remember when I was sitting in the international bar at YMML about 30 years ago two things happened which almost made me go teatotal.Isaw the DC10-30 with the centre leg oleo and a 747-200 carrying the extra donk. And all in the one day I might admit!Rob YMA002 - Compass Airlines Australia - a new direction!pogo.jpg

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>Just for reference:>Qantas has never called the Technical Log Book a "gripe>sheet".>Qantas don't have transponder panels marked "IFF" (no civilian>airliner would)>There is no way one could accidentally think that a Qantas>aircraft would have an autoland system and it didn't. >Qantas aircraft don't have "target radar" (no civilian>airliner would)>There are no friction locks on any of the Qantas aircraft I>have worked on>#3 engine missing, obviously refers to a piston engined>aircraft (AFAIK, Qantas haven't had any four engined piston>powered aicraft since our last DC4 was sold).>Any engineer would get reprimanded for making comments like>these.Most versions of that joke I've seen actually mention military.. Apparently this one was altered to be from Qantas... :( No idea if they're legitimate... :(edit: oops... Dave Coulter :(

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Ian & others,This same joke, as mentioned, has been translated into many languages and like said, originated from an US Air Force joke I think.I received this very same joke a while ago, with the airline changed to Finnair. To a normal person it may be funny, but all the professioinals seem to immediately correct things. :) Same happened when it was sent to a Finnair flight mechanic. Finnair and Qantas share pretty much equal safety record, except that Finnair did have two accidents with fatalities during the earlier years in aviation. :(

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Gladly, no-one I've spoken to knows anything about the loss of the 5th pod (Qantas). However, I've just read on another forum that Cathay supposedly lost one a few weeks ago.... but this was on takeoff... and the engine went barrelling off the end of the runway!However, this is only hearsay. I haven't confirmed this.Cheers.Ian.

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Guest cargo747

>I believe the only 744 capable of doing this is RR equipped.John,i was more talking about having the "replacement/spare engine" shipped "IN-SIDE" a B744F :-) Makes the wing more efficient :-) by not having the "5th pod" hanging around :-)And by the way, no need to be specific about engines types - know of an airline that ships quite frequently engines (those coming from Derby, UK) via EGCC/EGPK to KSEA on either a "GE" or "RR" powered B747-4R7F and one B747-428F :-)Cheers,Norbert - CLX001CEO Virtual Cargoluxwww.virtualcargolux.orgpmdg_banner.gif

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Guest teeloo

As an military dude:Actually the "gripe" sheet is more common in the military world anyway.There is the aircraft form ( official document and no jokes on that!)And there is a technical debrief sheet. Minor reports for techincal crews that have no high prio.A pilot would report things brief and quick (military (fighter) pilots are always in a hurry).So that's where the funny lines come from. No time to write the whole story.Teeloo

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The story I related was told to me by my father. He in turn was told the story by a very close friend and an employee of Qantas who had been in their employ for years as a senior ground official in Brisbane at the time.Perhaps the airline wasn't Qantas - may have been one they were ground handlers for and the old fellow got his wires crossed. Will never know now - he is still alive (my father) but his memory is wallaby edward (roo ted).Andy b

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Wow guys some good stories posted here!Looking into it a bit more, this might be a functionality addition to the PMDG -400 at some point ....? ;-)Ive just noticed that there is a "VMO SPARE ENGINE" overspeed EICAS warning message, but im sure this is one for the -400 "service update" way way way down the line !!!!Oh.. guys at PMDG...Im just drooling like homer when he says doooonutttsss.... but im just saying Caaaaaaaaaaaat Threeeeeeeeeeeeee !:-lolArmen at EGLLwww.veryquiet.com

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Guest Midnight LS1

>>I believe the only 744 capable of doing this is RR>equipped.>>John,>i was more talking about having the "replacement/spare engine">shipped "IN-SIDE" a B744F :-) Makes the wing more efficient>:-) by not having the "5th pod" hanging around :-)>>And by the way, no need to be specific about engines types ->know of an airline that ships quite frequently engines (those>coming from Derby, UK) via EGCC/EGPK to KSEA on either a "GE">or "RR" powered B747-4R7F and one B747-428F :-)>Why not carry pax AND an spare engine for an downed aircraft?Pax gets to place they want to, spare engine gets there for an downed aircraft, airline profits off pax and engine if the engine was for another airline ;)

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Either it won't fit or the weight might exceed the cargo hold floor limit, or it would pose a contamination risk to adjacent cargo .(fuel, oil and other fluids)

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Guest Midnight LS1

>Why not use the cargo bay?>>>PaulDo you think you can simply take an engine off the wing into the cargo bay? It won't fit in it. It would in the 747F.

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Guest Vincent

I'm so curious what is the layout of the cockpit. Where would the 5th Eng throttle place?Vincent

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Guest AJ

>I'm so curious what is the layout of the cockpit. Where would>the 5th Eng throttle place?>>VincentThe 5th engine is a spare. It is not operational, so there would certainly be no 5th throttle, and likely no other indications or difference in the cockpit. Afterall, the aircraft carrying it would only be doing so temporarily,a nd would later go back to its normal 4-engine configuration.Andrew

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Guest AJ

Somewhere recently I saw something equally wierd looking. It was a video on the internet (can't recall where it came from), showing a Boeing flight test using a 747 with the #2 engine replaced by a GE-90 (the one used on the 777). In this case the engine was fully operational. I bet that put a little hitch in its giddyup!. Could you imagine a 744 powered by 4 GE-90s? That would be one speedy Queen. No doubt the engineers around here will quibble with the idea, but its still fun to think about.Andrew

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Guest Midnight LS1

>Somewhere recently I saw something equally wierd looking. It>was a video on the internet (can't recall where it came from),>showing a Boeing flight test using a 747 with the #2 engine>replaced by a GE-90 (the one used on the 777). In this case>the engine was fully operational. I bet that put a little>hitch in its giddyup!. Could you imagine a 744 powered by 4>GE-90s? That would be one speedy Queen. No doubt the>engineers around here will quibble with the idea, but its>still fun to think about.>>AndrewYep I have that video. If you read about that test flight, the pilots had to do everything to drag the plane down because with just the GE90-115B at full power, it kept accelerating the 747 and they were near overspeed.air-1stflt-ge115-02-8.jpg

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