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Richard McDonald Woods

Splitting forums?

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Randy,It might be simpler if the PMDG forums were split-up a bit, maybe by airframe. With the release of the MD-11, it is going to get harder to find the B744 and B737 stuff amongst the many topics started.Just a thought!Cheers, Richard

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I agree with you Richard, I don't know if splitting is possible but just look, the MD isn't even out yet, there is a lot of activity in the forum. Just imagine what it will be like once it hits the market for both platforms (FSX-FS9).

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This too shall pass. When the 747X came out all the buzz was on that topic. A month ago I'm pretty sure there were fewer than 6 posts/day here. Patience.

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hi,Enthusiasm, excitement and adrenaline rushes will fade out. I remember 4 years ago having raised this issue on this forum but it was quickly turned down. The main reason was that the amount of work to segregate and split existing posts in several sub forums would be an enormous task.What may be easier to do is to create a sub forum for all pinned posts of the development team (announcements and alike) then, a sub forum for all subjects related to software download problems, claims and after-sale issues, the third sub forum being exclusively related to flightdeck issues.How do one enforce strict adherence for posting in such split forums may be an issue where the PMDG team may be reluctant to invest time.Best regards

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I reckon it would be a great idea. Set out in a tiered system as below, for example...General discussion (off-topic)Products in Development- 737NGX- A320PMDG MD-11 for FSX- General discussion- Screenshots- Support- Updates/Service PacksPMDG MD-11 for FS9- General discussion- Screenshots- Support- Updates/Service PacksPMDG 747-400/-400F for FSX- General discussion- Screenshots- Support- Updates/Service PacksPMDG 747-400/-400F for FS9- General discussion- Screenshots- Support- Updates/Service PacksPMDG 737-800/-900 for FS9- General discussion- Screenshots- Support- Updates/Service PacksPMDG 737-600/-700 for FS9- General discussion- Screenshots- Support- Updates/Service PacksDocumentation and Other Products- General discussion- Support... and so on - you get the idea for each product.

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Hi,Robin, Matt, Although your thoughts are great in theory I am affraid there is little chance the PMDG folks will agree. The only way out would be for PMDG to create their own forums on their website. This idea has been floating around a few years ago but did not materialized. I can't blame PMDG if they do not concur as it a very time consuming task. Years ago I was a moderator on Avsim (pseudo: pagotan) for a forum which is still alive named FSFlightMax and FSGarmin forum. I can testify it is a very work intensive job to monitor one forum, here you are talking about a dozen of forums. I can't imagine PMDG would be willing to allocate a the task force which would be necessary to properly manage an monitor this. My feeling is that they concentrate on more lucrative jobs.Having said that I raised the very same issue here back in 2004 just to make sure you do not misunderstand my pessimistic approach to your request.Best regards

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Hi,Ahh well. :DI remember when the 744 was released - PMDG had to go to a temporary forum because AVSIM couldn't handle the load!I do appreciate though that as it's temporary (e.g. around release dates), maybe it isn't worth the hassle.Best regards,Robin.

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I think the idea in theory makes sense, but to have that many different sub-sections would make life extremely difficult for anyone trying to moderate them.. There are also a number of extra workloads that are added, moving posts from one section to the relevant section. Within the AVSIM forum alone there are so many incorrectly placed posts. I've found PMDG support posts in "Hanger Chat", "FS Hardware", and even "Radar Contact"... By adding extra forums to the PMDG forum space, this problem would in effect be amplified. I know that most people would pay attention to the forum sub-sections and post appropriately, but there are always some that do not, and also there are always mistakes.I think also, another distinct disadvantage to having other forums is the general lack of visibilty to others.. I don't really need support for the 747-400, I very familiy with its systems, procedures, etc. this would mean I and other experienced 744 flyers would not visit the 747 section of the forum often at all, and that would be undesirable. Myself and others such as Carl (lasnubes, I'm sure he won't mind me mentioning him) who I know is also an avid 744 flyer for example would miss posted questions and queries that we could answer easily.. such as FMC programming, SOPs, and other issues.. This puts those new sim pilots at a disadvantage.The other thing I would mention is that besides the forum, PMDG have created their OPs pages to capture knowledge of their various products already. Anyone can contribute to these pages, and these pages are all named and moderated to provide a knowledge base for us all.. I know I have contributed to these pages, and the more of us that do the more that knowledge base will increase. If there were to be any catagorisation, it should be done within the PMDG ops pages as these are easier to manage, however at the moment contributions to the OPs pages have been slow since they opened. These ops pages are for US.. to pass information to each other.. and have it recorded in a central place which is easy to find.We are a community here, I am sure they won't mind me saying, that PMDG is not the only support mechanism for their planes, but we all are!CheersCraig

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Actually, you're wrong. What I suggested is ONE forum divided up into different sections. Think of it like the folders on your computer where PMDG is the main folder and each aircraft is a sub-folder, each with its own set of sub-folders for support topics, etc. Get my drift now?If you want to see an example, check out the CLS forums at http://www.commerciallevel.com/forum/index.php?act=idx as they are fairly close to what I was trying to describe. You'll see they have a thread for aircraft, another for scenery, etc. The aircraft thread has sub-threads for each individual aircraft.

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Matt,I see what you are saying, but that is exactly what I thought you had in mind originally.. Like I said I believe you'll still have all the same problems that I've posted above. Incorrect postings, missed posts, sub-divisions that never get used etc..My point is the support network is not just PMDG but we're all part of it.. my example of how this sub-dividing could work against that was this... You will find a lot of experienced users of the 747 (like myself or Carl) as an example will more than likely not go into the 747 sections very often, because we simply don't need to. Our knowledge of the aircraft and systems mean we don't need much guidance, this means that despite being able to answer a lot of other questions that are posted in there, we won't do as often, because we'll be visiting that section much less frequently and will often miss what's in there. I, and other experienced 744 users might visit the 747FSX section on Monday.. and not return for 2 weeks.. in the mean time 4 posts are added regarding FMC issues, 2 are added regarding autoland.. another is added regarding the use of VNAV.. another poster is struggling with high take off weights.. another poster can't get the engines running.. etc.. etc.. ... We could answer these questions in a snap, but because we don't check that section very often we don't for 2 weeks.. some might be bumped off the front page, etc.. do you see what I mean? However, I visit this forum on an almost daily basis, as do others.. so we get to see all the posts that are added.. I think in some cases sub-division can actually work against you..With a forum like this one, all in one, I often stumble across posts and little nuggets that I would otherwise completely miss if the forum was sub-divided, and I am able to help out or contribute constructively to those threads.. It also totally reduces moderation requirements to constantly check if a post is posted in the correct section.. Like I said.. I've seen PMDG support requests in the Radar Contact section of AVSIM.. I imagine most would probably just use general discussion in the hope to get their post noticed by those who can help.. see what I mean?I think your idea would work well in the PMDG OPs pages though, these are for reference, and to be contributed to by all of us in a constructive way.. Sub-division would make looking through the pages quicker, but until these pages expand, and more contributions are made this would add complication where it's not needed.I hope I made myself a bit clearer in this post..CheersCraig

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Craig, you have raised many good points.The original post was a complaint that there were too many MD11 posts, and 737/747 were hard to find. Now several days later, the same threads are still being added to, new topics are appearing and getting responses and all seems to be working.I guess I don't see a problem; hence, nothing needs fixing. Just my opinion.

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Who's Randy?I assume you meant me lol...I don't make the decisions on stuff like separating the forum into categories, but it is something I'd support and I will ask about doing it.

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I think it is a good idea to split the foruman alternative if it is to complicated would be to post a sticky at the begining of the forum with the instruction to add in the topic subject the airframe and sim concerned (i.e.[737NG-FS9])Julien

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Personally I think the split/tiered forums make it more more difficult/effort to find out information. The thing I like about the PMDG forum is that all the users come together in the one place, and you can "happen" along interesting topics that you may not otherwise come across. One would probably notice that a lot of topics end up with a quite a bit of related/unrelated, but interesting, information in them. Tiered forums would make it more difficult/time consuming to read the latest postings. + the forum isn't the world's most busy either.Just putting it out there. Cheers from a wet and windy Australia (well my part if it anyway)Rudy

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>Personally I think the split/tiered forums make it more more>difficult/effort to find out information. The thing I like>about the PMDG forum is that all the users come together in>the one place, and you can "happen" along interesting topics>that you may not otherwise come across. One would probably>notice that a lot of topics end up with a quite a bit of>related/unrelated, but interesting, information in them. >Tiered forums would make it more difficult/time consuming to>read the latest postings. + the forum isn't the world's most>busy either.My thoughts as well Rudy. :)

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I have to disagree with this. Look at this scenario...You have a problem with your PMDG 747-400 (FS9) and come onto the AVSIM PMDG forum as it exists today. You've seen that someone has posted a fix to this ages ago but as other posts have been made since then, it's been pushed down the list and back 5, 6, 8 or more pages. You now have to use the search engine to find it and it spits out any match with the string of words you used.Instead of the above, you open the tiered forum and go straight to the "PMDG 747-400 (FS9)" thread and look in the "Support" section of that thread. There's the sticky put there by the forum moderators right at the top. No confusion either over whether it's the FS9 or FSX version. Ahhh, wasn't that easy!

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>I have to disagree with this. Look at this scenario...>>You have a problem with your PMDG 747-400 (FS9) and come onto>the AVSIM PMDG forum as it exists today. You've seen that>someone has posted a fix to this ages ago but as other posts>have been made since then, it's been pushed down the list and>back 5, 6, 8 or more pages. You now have to use the search>engine to find it and it spits out any match with the string>of words you used.>>Instead of the above, you open the tiered forum and go>straight to the "PMDG 747-400 (FS9)" thread and look in the>"Support" section of that thread. There's the sticky put there>by the forum moderators right at the top. No confusion either>over whether it's the FS9 or FSX version. Ahhh, wasn't that>easy!I agree.

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I'm also in support of split forums.It's WAY too hard to quickly find relevant information. How many times have you seen the post "My AP will not follow the FMS plan after I takeoff. What am I doing wrong?" you then have to go through the whole "what plane are you flying?" deal. That wastes time.I only fly the 747, and it's really annoying to come here and have to wade through several discussions about other planes before I find 747 information.On the topic of moderation, I don't think it would be that difficult at all. Other FS forums rarely require moderation for inappropriate material, and from what I've seen, moderators rarely have to move posts. In any event, moderation would be easy if there were 1 or 2 people per aircraft type."I don't really need support for the 747-400, I very family with its systems, procedures, etc. this would mean I and other experienced 744 flyers would not visit the 747 section of the forum often at all, and that would be undesirable. Myself and others such as Carl (lasnubes, I'm sure he won't mind me mentioning him) who I know is also an avid 744 flyer for example would miss posted questions and queries that we could answer easily.. such as FMC programming, SOPs, and other issues.. This puts those new sim pilots at a disadvantage."I disagree. I spend time on other FS forums where I'm fairly comfortable with the plane, and I visit them ALL the time. I go there to learn from other users, and to help out the newer users. Many others do that too. That way, we're always sharing information. I see where you're coming from, but I think you'll find that you don't have to worry about that.I completely understand that PMDG balks at the idea of having to sort through all those posts and categorize them- a valid concern. However, as PMDG adds new planes, it will become increasingly difficult to find information, and we WILL need to change forums. I say put in the effort now and get it out of the way, because it will only be harder in the future. It needn't be hard though. If we had a team of people working on it, I'm sure the project would be done in a few months. I'd certainly volunteer to help.How about this format:PMDG General-News and announcements-General discussion744-General discussion-Procedures and techniques-FS9 Support-FSX Support-FAQ & Updates-ScreenshotsMD11-General discussion-Procedures and techniques-FS9 Support-FSX Support-FAQ & Updates-ScreenshotsEach sub-forum can have sticky posts with the most important information.In addition to all that, I'm not a terribly big fan of AVSIM's forum software. It's ok, but there's much better out there in terms of formatting, active topics, new posts etc.

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