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jfri

Autoland and realism

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I have the LD767-300 and I have noticed that when I land where there is a ILS (both glideslope and localizer) I always get an Autoland 3 after pressing the approach button. I would like to know if in reallife you always would do an autoland with ILS available? I mean virtually all airports where I land the 767 has an ILS. Can I do a non autoland landing without giving up on realism?

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>I have the LD767-300 and I have noticed that when I land>where there is a ILS (both glideslope and localizer) I always>get an Autoland 3 after pressing the approach button. I would>like to know if in reallife you always would do an autoland>with ILS available? I mean virtually all airports where I land>the 767 has an ILS. Can I do a non autoland landing without>giving up on realism?Technically the airport you're landing at has to have the runway and ILS certified for Cat III autoland operations. Most ILS equiped runways are Cat I. Airports in locations with adverse weather conditions usually have Cat II and some have a mix of Cat II and Cat III. The only legal runways to do a Cat III autoland in Cat III conditions are those that are certified for Cat III operations. A description of Cat I, II, III:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instrument_La...#ILS_categoriesThe only way a Cat III autoland can be done on an ILS that is not Cat III is for system validation and can only be done if the conditions are Cat II or better.Cheers,JohnBoeing 727/737 & Lockheed C-130/L-100 Mechanichttp://www.sstsim.com/images/team/JR.jpgwww.SSTSIM.com

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Hi,I believe you can set up in the LevelD preferences, the option to manually engage the other two autopilots for an auto land.I think this is how it's done in the real world, perhaps a full fat pilot could confirm...... I'm only a semi-skimmed PA-28 pilot.All the best Stuart

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Hi,Good question. I had the opportunity to ask this of a B75 captain several years back that I know.The first thing might be to figure out when you would need to do an auto-land. If minimums are down to a CAT III, with very low minima, then you would most likely want the aircraft to do the landing.Otherwise, a certain number of auto-lands must be done to maintain currency for both the aircraft, and the pilots (I'm not sure of the actual number).If neither the low minima, or the curerncy requirement, are a factor, then most pilots like the landing part of the flight the best, and so why give the airplane all the fun? In visual conditions, where a visual approach is authorized (still an IFR clearance, at least here in the US), you can manually land. But if you really want to do an autoland, or you need to maintain currency and do one, then you must request an ILS clearance. I don't know how controllers feel about ILS approach clearances on a SKC day, and even if they impede traffic much more than a visual approach- but unless you're cleared for the ILS, you can't autoland.I think I got all that right- Bruce.

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I think Stuart's answer was more or less the one he was after, from the tech viewpoint rather than the theory behind the different ILS categories. I've learnt something though, sbout the prefs, to stop it engaging the other 2 AP's. Must give that a try. Since the LDS is so easy to hand fly, I often disco at about 1000ft and hand fly it down on the purple markers.

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>Hi,>>Good question. I had the opportunity to ask this of a B75>captain several years back that I know.>>The first thing might be to figure out when you would need to>do an auto-land. If minimums are down to a CAT III, with very>The questin I have in mind when do you need to do a manual landing.>If neither the low minima, or the curerncy requirement, are a>factor, then most pilots like the landing part of the flight>the best, and so why give the airplane all the fun? In visualThat's the way I have been thinking as a flysimmer. But for real life pilots I suppose what is fun is not the issue but rather what is the best way to have the job done.>traffic much more than a visual approach- but unless you're>cleared for the ILS, you can't autoland.>If the rwy has ILS and the plane got the right equipmwnt won't you always be cleared for ILS.BTW I use RC4 can this aspect be correctly simulated with it?

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Hi,"The questin I have in mind when do you need to do a manual landing."When either there is no ILS at the airport for your runway, or if either the pilot and/or the aircraft is not current for automated landings. There may be other factors as well."That's the way I have been thinking as a flysimmer. But for real life pilots I suppose what is fun is not the issue but rather what is the best way to have the job done."True- most airlines have SOPs which define (among ,amy other things) when the autopilot should or should not be used. Some airlines might require a preference for autolanding, I'm not sure. However, for all pilots, whether private or airline, the currency for carrying passengers is 3 take-off and landings (made manually) in each 90 days. So, regulations call for at least some manual landings, although I believe the landings can be made in an appropriate simulator. "If the rwy has ILS and the plane got the right equipmwnt won't you always be cleared for ILS."No- if the weather is good, then you would most likely get a "visual approach". Or ATC could be using LNAV/VNAV (FMC) approaches (if your aircarft has the equipment). But, you can always ask for an ILS approach. Bruce.

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what Bruce says is true....I read a statistic a few years ago on the FAA website that stated only about 12% of ATC intiated landing clearances were ILS (all catagories)that 12 out of a hundred...all the rest are visual.

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I don't think you guys know this, but just because the apporoach is visual doesn't mean you can't tune in the ILS and fly the plane that way... I do it all the time in RL, just as guidance, it doesnt hurt

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>Hi,>>"The questin I have in mind when do you need to do a manual>landing.">>When either there is no ILS at the airport for your runway, or>if either the pilot and/or the aircraft is not current for>automated landings. There may be other factors as well.A better question would be when do you need to do an autoland. Manual landings are the norm, the autolands are the exception.>"That's the way I have been thinking as a flysimmer. But for>real life pilots I suppose what is fun is not the issue but>rather what is the best way to have the job done.">>True- most airlines have SOPs which define (among ,amy other>things) when the autopilot should or should not be used. Some>airlines might require a preference for autolanding, I'm not>sure. However, for all pilots, whether private or airline,>the currency for carrying passengers is 3 take-off and>landings (made manually) in each 90 days. So, regulations>call for at least some manual landings, although I believe the>landings can be made in an appropriate simulator. I can assure you it's much easier to land it yourself than sweat over watching the autoland system do it. One would really only autoland when you need to (for weather/currency reasons). The fact it's more fun and satisfying (when it works out nicely) is neither here nor there.>"If the rwy has ILS and the plane got the right equipmwnt>won't you always be cleared for ILS.">>No- if the weather is good, then you would most likely get a>"visual approach". Or ATC could be using LNAV/VNAV (FMC)>approaches (if your aircarft has the equipment). But, you can>always ask for an ILS approach. That may be true in the US but in Europe when an ILS is fitted, you are usually given an ILS approach. Of course, if you become visual far out and choose to make a visual approach that's up to you but you would still keep the ILS tuned for guidance. Your request for a visual would probably be denied when it's busy. Don't forget that irrespective of the type of approach, most of the time it's landed manually. You don't have to autoland off an ILS approach.Approach and Landing are two very separate and distinct parts of the flight, the use of the autopilot in both cases is subject to many different factors. As the pilot it's your choice. In the real world autolands are quite stressful, CAT III autolands are even more stressful and manual landings are generally considered the norm and are therefore less stressful.Most of my flying ends up as vectors for the ILS followed by autopilot disconnect at around 1000ft (ish) followed by a manual landing. As ever there are always some variations but that is the norm.Hope this helps,Ian

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Listening into atc at my local airport Luton (EGGW), UK, all aircraft are always cleared for an ILS approach, what ever the weather, and traffic density.

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"I don't think you guys know this, but just because the apporoach is visual doesn't mean you can't tune in the ILS and fly the plane that way"Yes, golden rule: Always keep the nav radios tuned to something, even if you are visual and ATC gives you an intercept to final inside the FAF. I would totally agree.Bruce.

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Interesting Ian- thanks for the perspective. Just another difference maybe between the US system and in Europe. (I can recall a lively dicussion here about "VFR-on-top", which is an IFR clearance here in the US (with visual cloud seperation minima and no separation guarenteed by ATC); vs what was clearly a VFR flight in Europe).I can imagine that an auroland is a scary thing in RL. I assume that's why the currency requirement for crew?? Even in my club's C172S (which has no autoland :) ), if ever I engage the autopilot on the trip down the localizer/glideslope, I feel cheated!! :)Bruce.

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>I can assure you it's much easier to land it yourself than>sweat over watching the autoland system do it. One would>really only autoland when you need to (for weather/currency>In the real world autolands are quite stressful, CAT III>autolands are even more stressful and manual landings are>generally considered the norm and are therefore less>stressful.>Why would it be more stressful and difficult when the autopilot does everything and you only need to watch?

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"Why would it be more stressful and difficult when the autopilot does everything and you only need to watch?"For a pilot to give control to an automated system? That can be frightening. Besides- the landing is the best part of the flight. Pilots learn to land manually so many times it becomes drilled into their heads- then they have to learn to trust a autopilot to do it, and that's hard to do.Just my take on it.Bruce.

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