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Sesquashtoo

The E-Commerce purchase wrapper....

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Has anybody ever had a problem with buying software delivered this way?This thing makes me nervous...that you are not on a web-secure, encrypted page from the software house you wish to buy from--- and where exactly does your purchase information go when you click 'agree/send'???Where does it go? Is it stored? I mean you are not even connected to a secure web page, but rather, you have just an open preinstall window upon your desktop!!!I want to buy something from FLIGHT1.com but...they have this form of payment for their software deliverable downloads. Like I said, it makes me nervous, having never used this type of software purchase route.Anybody?Mitch

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HelloThe flight1 Wrapper is the best delivery method around.Whats the difference between sending encrypted data from your browser vs sending it encrypted via the Flight1 Wrapper to flight1's secure server they are both just applications sending data.You will also see the benefit if you want to reinstallFlight1 is probably the most respected publisher out there for Flight sim Downloads.http://www.freewebs.com/reading1871/30.jpg

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I have made a number of purchases from Flight1.No problems ... I thought it was secure!I have also made the PayPal, SimMarket, AVSIM,... whatever.It is all rather un-nerving to say the least.Sending checks .. waiting for them to clear ?? too solw. So, what else can you do .. other than be "trusting".I know there are an awful lot of internet purchases daily acroos the board ... a'lot of numbers flying around out htere!

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How do you know it isn't secure? Are you monitoring ports or packet sniffing to see that it doesn't use an encrypted port (443?), or that they have their own method of encrypting the data to a different nonstandard port? I believe it states it's creating an HTTPS connection, so how is that different than having your browser open. Your browser is a client and the Flight One wrapper is a client. What is the difference?Clearly anyone who wants to subvert the data will try, whether it's a web browser that is constantly being exploited by hackers or a proprietary application like the Flight 1 wrapper. Just because you trust a web browser to send the data to a safe server doesn't mean it hasn't been hacked. I see no difference between the two.

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I guess you're right. Once you press send, the information is-----------------------> gone to the 'ether'. You hope it is to and for what you ask of it.It's just that I have no visual input that I am now on an encrypted client/server vs. just this open window naked upon my desktop.I'm not impinging anything regarding Flight1. Not at all.I'm merely nervous about the wrapper format. Not who chooses to use it.Thanks to all for your input(s). Points noted.Mitch

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You will also see the benefit if you want to reinstall-------------------------How so, Mad Dog? Can you extrapolate?Thanks

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I wonder if this info then sits somewhere upon your computer---in the Registry perhaps--etc.I ran the FSDiscover software and find it simply wonderful!Great features,...I love the 'cookie-crumb' flight plan route superimposed over the terrain....This program really rocks! I was just outside of New York city proper, and was flying VFR over this hill...well..approaching this hill...in my B.E.V. rendered textures..and low and behold--the hill had a name...:) Also, it isn't just canned...but shows that the B.E.V. scenery is also not canned. I was flying over a B.E.V. graphic of a city centre fanning out to the B.E.V. graphic of the greater city area ...and again...dead in the center of that downtown core graphic, a proper city name appeared. What this does for the immersive effect is amazing, let alone that I can now fly throughout Europe, NOT KNOW Europe well..and STILL feel like an informed VFR tourist. I mean...what you get out of any software product, is what you exactly put into it, by USING all features. :)This so immerses you into the FS world. That is why I thought this would be a great program to have created, not realizing or knowing that it already had been....It is just one more piece of the puzzle to lock down that you are TRULY flying over real-world terrain.Thanks, all. If I feel secure enough to press the button...I'm sure I'll enjoy this product immensely.Mitch

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>You will also see the benefit if you want to reinstallThat is one of the funniest things I have ever heard! I bought Ultimate traffic way back in the day and when I moved to a new computer and FS9 it wouldn't let me reinstall it. The wrapper didn't have the correct credit card information and they must have lost all of my other information because they said they could not find me in the database and would not give me a new key.That was the last purchase I made with Flight1

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>>>You will also see the benefit if you want to reinstall>>>That is one of the funniest things I have ever heard! I bought>Ultimate traffic way back in the day and when I moved to a new>computer and FS9 it wouldn't let me reinstall it. The wrapper>didn't have the correct credit card information and they must>have lost all of my other information because they said they>could not find me in the database and would not give me a new>key.>>That was the last purchase I made with Flight1--------------------------------"Ouch!" :(Mitch

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I believe it states it's creating an HTTPS connection----------------------------------------------------Just in after thought, I didn't see anywhere on the pre-install screen where it made that definitive statement.Not really splitting hairs here, but merely that I didn't see that. I DID see at the bottom of the window that it said all information is encrypted, but like I said, there is no user verification (visual or otherwise) that after you press the send, it IS going through an encrypted method or pathway.This is just me wondering 'out loud' and my due-diligence guy sitting on my left shoulder. Never MIND, who is sitting on my right one! Headed somebody off at the pass, lol. Mitch

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I have never had a problem with Flight 1. I have a dozen products from them. Highly recommended. Simple to reinstall. Sometimes I have to get a new key and reactivate it to reinstall but Flight 1 has always found my stuff. I also keep a hard copy of the info incase anything gets lost. Never has happened though.JimCYWG

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Jim, just to be clear, on the software products you have purchased, it WAS through the wrapper port?I just want to be clear on this..Also, if you bought this product(s) and then made a full hard drive backup...would not this product still run when you reintroduced your back up to a new hard drive, or present hard drive if you suffered data loss or corruption? You'd think so, huh?Thanks,Mitch

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HelloSorry to hear about your experience.I have made over 50 purchases using the flight1 wrapper and reinstalled a large amount of them multiple times without any problems.The wrapper does not have any credit card information all you need is the Key file which is installed when you install your purchase and the last four digits of the card used, if you have all this backed up then no problems.http://www.freewebs.com/reading1871/30.jpg

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My 3 rules for Internet use:1. NEVER-EVER send credit card info over the net.2. Deal only when you can talk to & query a HUMAN over the phone.3. "If it ain't on CD, it's not for me!"Never had a problem and never had a purchase with which I wasn't satisfied!Alex Reid

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Seeing the responses here...I guess that I'll jump into the mix.I really want that program, lol.Thanks for all your comeback's guys. They were reassuring enough to try this pay-format.Mitch

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Hi Alex,I have never had any problems relaying that data over conventional encryption servers.I have bought many programs in this way. I then always burn my download for archive and recovery purposes, along with a text file of all communications, keys, etc also onto the disc.That forms the disc.The wrapper format made me pause, that's all.:)Mitch

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Used flight1 wrapper for a purchase I prefer using flight1 never had a problem with it and first of all not to sound harsh to some of the guys here, but your credit card information can be stolen anywhere at the gas station at the retail stores banks etc etc. Nothing is 100% safe in this world its just a big gamble some have had very bad luck being just at the wrong place at the wrong time.Its just how the world works unfortunately, but its good to want to be safe, but like I said never had any issue's with them at all, and always remember! please backup the data on a CD or any other format, place, besides your main hardrive, in case you lose it or get a hard-drive failure.

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Mitch- The requirement for CD availability relates more to software quality- rather than than archival security. ie: Is it buggy/incomplete/subject to changes or updates or maybe simply not very good? I equate availability on CD/DVD as an indication of software stability and quality.Apologies to some good software houses that don't release on CD/DVD- but that's their loss.Alex Reid

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HelloJust curious but why would being on CD indicate software stability and quality, after all vista is on DVD :-)"Apologies to some good software houses that don't release on CD/DVD- but that's their loss"How is it their loss, they have no stock , few overheads and more sales.If you limit your FS purchases to CD/DVD you miss out on some great Addons. your losshttp://www.freewebs.com/reading1871/30.jpg

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In my experience Alex, the download program .exe is the same one they would burn to disc. The same.In a download, you get it right away, if you live out of the country of origin, you do not need to mess with Customs, AND pay their fees for handling, the fee to the delivery carrier, etc.For those fees, you could buy 30 blank DVD's!!!!It's all about the comfort-factor, and if how you buy is yours, then it totally works for you! :)That's the final deal. That's why I had reservations with this wrapper-purchase.Probably others dove right in...their comfort/security zone allowed for that.:) Mine didn't.Mitch

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"Just curious but why would being on CD indicate software stability and quality, after all vista is on DVD :-)"-Which leads nicely to Reid's 4th rule of Consumerism- < Never purchase a new car in its first year of production. And subsequently, only after due diligence.> :)Alex Reid

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Mitch, I just download the file from Flight 1. Start it up, put in the info and send it off to Flight 1. Honestly I don't like using credit over the web but millions do. And yes, every so often, something happens. that's the chance in life. I just got a paypal account for ebay. I used to send money orders but several times sellers claim they never got payment. I would send it again, they get the second one and I think they would try to cash the 1st one as they lied. Paypal is safer.In my mind, Flight 1 is fine. If they were shafting us, they wouldn't be around anymore and we would be out some money. I don't back up my drives. I have nothing on my computer that I care about that much. I can FORMAT C anytime and reinstall everything. That's me. I then just download all the programs from Flight 1 again and away I go. The hard copy I keep is a paper copy of the purchase not a backup of the program.JimCYWG

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Just to reiterate what the above poster said, your credit card info is at risk all the time. Scammers have used devices on ATMs to steal CC numbers and pins, bank servers have been compromised, and a myriad of other methods used that can obtain your information and ruin your account. Even complete identities are stolen every day, so someone can ruin your life with thousands in debt before you even know it. I have no idea how these scams happen, other than to say most of it is probably from hacking computers and servers, but also from people simply using your SSN, or clerical mistakes from honest people in business and government.My only example of it was from this past tax season. I received a letter stating my state income tax refund was being withheld because I owed a debt to the state and until it was paid off I wouldn't get any refunds. I automatically knew this was wrong and called several different agencies before anyone believed me and told me what to do. Basically, someone had a bench warrant out for not showing up to court stemming from a drunk driving incident and he owed almost $1000 USD. This was deferred to the state and put a hold on any tax money until he was caught or surrendered himself to pay the fine. How did I get mixed up with this? The cop who arrested the guy, who was my same age with a very similar name, had looked up his info on the MDT (computer in the cop car) and somehow got my SSN number instead of his. He put my SSN number on the complaint, and now I was tied to the crime he committed, at least financially. I had to go to the court to prove it wasn't me and they called the state tax department to get it right. PITA, but it could've been much worse.I have been using credit cards on the Internet since you were first able to and never had a problem. I've had a couple minor incidents with compaines charging twice and not wanting to admit to it, but it work out in the end. I have bought loads of software, books, computer equipment, flight sim add ons, electronic devices, and god knows what else. I'm just careful and make sure the store is reputable first. Flight 1 has been selling this way for a long time and it's always been perfect for me.

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Don't you already know all of this, Sesquashtoo? There have been numerous threads about Flight1's wrapper. Try searching.

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While I'm hardly an expert, from what I gather from people who study this issue is that you're much more likely to be a victim of identity theft from someone going through your garbage or a corrupt employee double swiping your card at a restaurant than to fall victim to someone stealing your card card info over the internet.However, you should still exercise caution when buying on line.-Bryan

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