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Gizmo

ATI Users a moment of your time please

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Hello fellow simmersIt has been made clear to me (by an beta tester of theres) that ATI do not consider FSX to be worthy of any kind of driver tweaks from there dev teamthis is a shame as ATI lag behind Nv by about -33% on like for like systems and like for like settinghttp://www.tomshardware.co.uk/radeon-hd-48...w-31433-22.htmlchart_51_msflightx_sp2_1920_aa.pngI have found this dip in performance on my own system when moving to ATI finding the 4870 tobe somewhat slower than my old 8800gts even after lower settings(in any other game it flys but not FSX!)It seems that ATI dont think simmers money is worth the same as that of the FPS crowd and while i understand the limitations of FSX and its CPU boundness i still think ATI could do something to improve the CPU dependency of there driversfor the 4xxx line of cards & as this would also benefit other games as well as FSX i think its worth letting them know that the FSX community members who are using this line of cards are not happy with there level of performace they are providing atm & as we might be stuck with FSX for a while yet we'ed like them to consider spending time to see what they can do to get there number up to atleast those that Nv giveI believe its worth a try as the same beta tester told me this of problems with Medal Of Honor Allied Assault Spearhead (a very old game)"Lots of people reported the issue so it got fixed"So if your an ATI user and your not happy with your performance in FSX i ask you to pop over to ATI/AMD's driver feedback website and let them know,heres the link to the feedback formhttp://support.ati.com/ics/survey/survey.a...86&type=webIf you could also post a "ive let them know" kind post here that would be cool as we can try and keep track of how many ppl have reported the problem to themCheersSteve

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Well, I sent them a note:"Q: What issue are you having?Fly the game -- have clouds. I paid over $300.00 for your card -- over $2,000 USD in the past 2 1/2 years -- and never get the performance I expect. Frame rates are astoundingly slow, textures flash and break up, and still no relief from ATI. I don't understand this -- my nVidia cards run so much faster and steadier!!"

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I have two computers, one with a PowerColor 4870 1GB and the other with a GTX295. I see no difference in graphics quality between these two cards in FSX.The ATI card never had burries and does process clouds just fine. With my newer 295 I had to try three drivers. It had blurries. I ended up using the driver release that came with the card, on the cd that is, which was two releases back. But anyway all is ok now. If ATI had newer cards out I would have gotten one of those and not the 295. I've always had less problems with ATI.

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I haven't owned an nVidia in several years but... I think there IS a problem with ATI as these cards REALLY choke on clouds and I thought that 3D acceleration of the magnitude the 4870 provides would surely at least make that problem managable. Then again, I seem to recall someone saying that rendering in MSFS is still so software-oriented that a fast processor makes the biggest difference. I noticed that all of the 3.67 GHz machines were ranking high on the list that the OP linked to.

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I have to agree with ahuimanuMy 4870 totally chokes in heavy cloud or with any thing past normal autogen (even with trees and buildings tweaked down) my 8800gts simply didnt have this problem and has pretty much rendered 2 of my addon almost worth lesswhats the point in flying with FEX & ASX when my card starts to jitter as soon as any cloud banks roll in.....in pretty much everything else my 4870 killer my old 880gts but not FSXAmd.game is littered with post about the ATI hardware & FSX's clouds seems its not as bad as it was for 3870 users but its still not exceptable to me that my 4870 runs slowers in FSX that my last gen card did and that even after i turn settings down! if i run it like for like against the 8800 its about -33% slower ! just take alook at the above number where Nv are 3.7 fps faster on a c2d@2.93 than ATI are on a Qaud @ 3.67 ! thats just not right 700Mhz extra and another 2 cores and its slowerwe dont see these kind of deficit in other games even CPU limited ones,& it seems the only way to get them to act its to log complain month after month & as ive been told untill enought ppl send feedback they wont do jack about itso i hope all those ATI users that read this thread and didnt post took a few mins to fill the feedback form out so we can get ATI to take a look at there substandard FSX numbers CheersGizmo

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Hi there,My first ATI grhaphic card (Shappire HD4870 1GB GDDR5)...I'm really disappointed...I have reported in ATI's support as instructed by Steve...and hopefully they finnally improve their driver...Cheers,thicoo

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Many Thanks thicoo The more ppl that let ATI where not happy with the current state of there FSX support the better :)Cheerssteve

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Hi there,I wanted to ask you guys, if there's a huge difference between using the FSX(with HD4870) in Vista with DX10.1 or Xp with DX9 ??Thank you so much,thicoo

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I am also disappointed. I am really considering going to a nVidia card but really want to get another ATI card for my small lcd to watch movies and TV shows on from time to time. Always planned on upgrading to a new ATI card for this purpose so I could do that. If I go with a new nVidia there is no way I can afford a 2nd nVidia card for this purpose (unless someone really overpays on CraigsList for it). Since disabled and no income for at least another 1.5 years. I might sell some more crap maybe, don't know. If I had some money I'd go out and buy 2 9800GTX+ cards and sell my ATI since I'm ###### about the lack of driver support for this game. It's the same in X-plane also I hear. In other games ATI does very well (especially if you consider price), shouldn't be to hard to fix you'd think.Almost forgot, followed that link and filled everything out.

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Hi there,I wanted to ask you guys, if there's a huge difference between using the FSX(with HD4870) in Vista with DX10.1 or Xp with DX9 ??Thank you so much,thicoo
Hi Thicoo Well i found that the top end FPS spikes in DX9 seem to be higher on my 4870 but the avg is about the same as under DX10 (vista X64) DX10 does allows me to run with a bit more eye candy (bloom/highx2 water) but the trade off is flickering runways loss of progressive taxi and VC tool tips in fullscreennewest 9.2 drivers made no diff in FPS for me in FSX so ive filled out the CCFB form agian telling them there numbers suck hopfully every ATI user visting this thread is doing the same and if so i hope we'll see some improvement in there support for FSX in the coming monthsCheersGizmo

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For what is is worth: I just dumped my 3870X2 for an GTX280 because of all the problems with AA and clouds with ATI cards.And I will never look back again! I have had ATI cards in all my computers but with the 3x00 end 4x00 series and FS clouds the performance really lacks.At this moment, a nVidia card is better for FS, especially with a lot of 3D clouds and/or real weather. (PS shimmering is also a LOT less with the GTX280)

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I had been using the Nvidia 8800GTS 320 until I decided to spend a bit of money to get more out of my system. I did the free upgrade to Vista 64, slapped in 8gb RAM, and purchased the ATI 4870 512. I also decided to solely use FSX with these upgrades. The 4870 is a much better card for every game I have tried except FSX. Here are some of the 4870's problems that I have found in FSX:1) I notice some tearing with vsync on and off. It doesn't matter if I lock/unlock frames and mess with any of the settings. 2) There are texture bleeds on pavement and aircraft lighting does not show properly in DirectX 10 mode. (Testing showed that these were problems as well with my 8800GTS, so that might be more of a game problem.) 3) Clouds, as many have stated, really cause FSX to chug in certain weather conditions.4) AA does not seem as crisp as what Nvidia provided.5) Some textures in the distance shimmer.6) The 9.2 driver seems to cause major problems with the 4870X2 card. See thread here: http://forums1.avsim.net/index.php?showtopic=244565I am always discouraged when I read the release notes for ATI drivers and see the lack of support for FSX. They consistently seem to focus on updating the same games with each subsequent driver release. I am somewhat impressed by the regular development of fixes and improvements by the folks at ATI (I think they do more than their Nvidia rivals), however it would be nice to see them focus on other genres/titles every so often. Whether we like it or not, it seems like FSX is what we have to work with going forward! I can only hope they realize this and can provide support for FSX and for their customers that are using the simulation.Regards,Scott**Edit** Oh yes - Gizmo, I've let them know. :(

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1) I notice some tearing with vsync on and off. It doesn't matter if I lock/unlock frames and mess with any of the settings.
In FSX, how are you turning this on and off? CCC?Yes, I have had it and really wish I did NOT get a 4870 in December... I should have bought a nVidia 285. The worst bug of all in the ATI driver is the diagonal "tear" in 2D textures in DX9 mode. PMDG, Coolsky MD80, Level-D... frankly ALL of my add-on aircraft have a diagonal tear that runs from the top-left corner to the bottom-right corner in all gauges in 2D mode. This tear runs through graphics, characters, whatever. It is only about a 2-3 pixel tear, but it is noticeable and getting old.That plus the poor cloud performance means that I need to move on from ATI this year (or whenever my next system changeover occurs). I seem to recall several tweak guides recommending FOR nVidia and against ATI for FSX. As I get along in years, I am more interested in good MSFS performance. AND, since this is the LAST FS as we know it, I am wasting time with an ATI card.Why in the heck are they putting out drivers every month if these things don' t get fixed?

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In FSX, how are you turning this on and off? CCC?
Yup. That's how I'm doing it. If there is something I am overlooking within FSX that also accomplishes this, I hope someone will let me know!

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I have two computers, one with a PowerColor 4870 1GB and the other with a GTX295. I see no difference in graphics quality between these two cards in FSX.The ATI card never had burries and does process clouds just fine. With my newer 295 I had to try three drivers. It had blurries. I ended up using the driver release that came with the card, on the cd that is, which was two releases back. But anyway all is ok now. If ATI had newer cards out I would have gotten one of those and not the 295. I've always had less problems with ATI.
To update my post I have returned my 295 because of scenery spikes in fsx.

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ATI cards are complete crap in FSX. AA is especially bad compared to nVidia cards.

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ATI cards are complete crap in FSX. AA is especially bad compared to nVidia cards.
yep which is why we as a user base need to complain to ATI and get them to fix it the more ppl complain the better :)i have almost no complaints about other games with my 4870 even other CPU limited games run just as well as NV its just FSX where they are REALLY lackingcheersGizmo

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hi Folks.I am thinking of updating to a new PC and was going down the Ati route because of the price. The system I had in mind was a Dell Studio XPS with Intel Core i7 with an Ati 4870 card. Has anyone got any experience of using this duo or should I go down the Core i7 with Nvidia.your comments would be appreciated.Laurie

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hi Folks.I am thinking of updating to a new PC and was going down the Ati route because of the price. The system I had in mind was a Dell Studio XPS with Intel Core i7 with an Ati 4870 card. Has anyone got any experience of using this duo or should I go down the Core i7 with Nvidia.your comments would be appreciated.Laurie
I'm using an E8500 and the 4870 and I love it (see full specs below) -- so the i7 should work well. But then again I'm running FS9 almost exclusively -- I ran screaming from FSX about 2 months after it was released. Check the hardware forum -- lots of discussions about it there.

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ATI cards are complete crap in FSX. AA is especially bad compared to nVidia cards.
AA problems with NVidia cards is why I went ATI and got the 4870x2. However I haven't used the card yet. Now I am worried.

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I can tell you right now it won't look as good in regards to anti-aliasing compared to nVidia cards. I'm not saying nVidia cards are overall better, frankly I think both companies are scum, but for pure image quality I wish I had an nVidia card again.

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The thing is that I had perfect antialiasing with the GeForce 6600 and the Radeon x1300 in FSX when I had those two cards in the past.What is confusing me is, where did they introduce this issue and how?

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I wonder, if the new ATI RV790 (the core of the future HD 4890, which is supposed to be launched on Apr. 6th) will perform better at FSX and will be a match for Nvidia's 9800 GTX+, 260, 285, etc ...See also: Fudzilla: RV790 to become Radeon HD 4890VR-Zone: Radeon HD 4890 To Launch On Apr 6thVR-Zone: Nvidia Plans GTX 275 Against HD 4890
I dout it as this seems to be a driver overhead issue,ATI's drivers just need more CPU cycles to do the same job as Nv's ive been told this by one of there beta testers i was told they wont do anything about it till many ppl complain which is the main reason this thread was born and why everyone who use ATI for FSX should complain about there poor performance in FSXBTW ATI have changed there Survey location seems it now being delt with by AMD http://www.amdsurveys.com/se.ashx?s=5A1E27D27E29B0E3latersGizmo

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