Sorry for a second thread guys but I thought this justified one of its own as it's a pretty big topic.Here's the background...At the moment I enjoy recreating low cost airline flights from England to all around northern Europe. I use vroute (basic version) to get me some waypoints and route. I then load these into Radar Contact/FS9 and away I go. On approach to the destination I get vectored in to the ILS by ATC. This is with the WilcoPub A319.What I want to begin doing is following SID/STAR procedures that are up to date and in line with real life operations. So I have a few questions if that's ok.1) Is there anywhere that provides up to date, currently used SIDS/STARS for northern Europe? I don't mind paying as long as i'm getting the real deal.2)My Wilco Airbus doesn't have any preset SIDS/STARS in the FMC, how do I enter them into my route?3) I'm not really sure if I should ask here or ask in the RC forum but how can I get RCv4 to understand i'm following a SID/STAR? I'm a complete newbie to these and have ALWAYS been vectored into the ILS path. Any help is appreciated.

Sorry for a second thread guys but I thought this justified one of its own as it's a pretty big topic.Here's the background...At the moment I enjoy recreating low cost airline flights from England to all around northern Europe. I use vroute (basic version) to get me some waypoints and route. I then load these into Radar Contact/FS9 and away I go. On approach to the destination I get vectored in to the ILS by ATC. This is with the WilcoPub A319.What I want to begin doing is following SID/STAR procedures that are up to date and in line with real life operations. So I have a few questions if that's ok.1) Is there anywhere that provides up to date, currently used SIDS/STARS for northern Europe? I don't mind paying as long as i'm getting the real deal.2)My Wilco Airbus doesn't have any preset SIDS/STARS in the FMC, how do I enter them into my route?3) I'm not really sure if I should ask here or ask in the RC forum but how can I get RCv4 to understand i'm following a SID/STAR? I'm a complete newbie to these and have ALWAYS been vectored into the ILS path. Any help is appreciated.

1) Is there anywhere that provides up to date, currently used SIDS/STARS for northern Europe? I don't mind paying as long as i'm getting the real deal.The easy way is to subscribe to Navigraph (payware)http://www.navigraph.com/www/default.aspP.S. The charts are not 100% up-to-date but a few months old. I never had any issues with them being a tiny bit outdated.The cheapest way is to subscribe to Eurocontrol (free)http://www.ead.eurocontrol.int/publicuser/...ic/pu/login.jspP.S. Always up-to-date2)My Wilco Airbus doesn't have any preset SIDS/STARS in the FMC, how do I enter them into my route?Practically only 1 option: Navigraph.Besides charts they also provide NavData databases for a lot of payware aircraftP.S. always up-to-date (as far as I know)3) I'm not really sure if I should ask here or ask in the RC forum but how can I get RCv4 to understand i'm following a SID/STAR?Ask on the RC forum

Thanks for that Egbert, I have downloaded the Navigraph demo and got loads of charts for London Gatwick. I'm just taking a look at some of the SID/STAR plates and they look really confusing!!How do I transpose these into a FMC route that the plane can understand?My apologies for being thick!

Lukemeister,In respect to RC4, it doesnt really recognise a SID/STAR but there is a way to fly them without interference from the controllers.What you do is the following;For a SID, select the particular SID you want to fly in the FMC. Within RC4 itself, in the "Controller Info" section, tick the "Alt Restrictions", and RC4 will let you fly a SID without vectoring you all over the place. You know you've done the right thing when during the clearance the controller will say"...cleared to ### via published departure procedures..."What he is pretty much saying is find your own damned way out from the airfield. So fly the SID you want to. For the STAR, RC4 will control your aircraft until contacting approach 40nm out from the airfield no matter what you do. On contacting approach they will give you the assigned runway. Its from this point that you can start flying your STAR. You notice at the point where they give you the assigned runway, you get the option to fly a particular approach, be it VOR, ILS, Visual etc. Select any approach you wish, i usually select the VOR, and RC4 will let you fly into the airport yourself. It doesnt differentiate between the STAR you want to fly or an ILS or VOR for that matter. All its basically doing when you select a particular approach from the menu is let you fly into the airport without interference from the controllers.Now, how you input the STAR into the FMC is up to you. There are two ways you can do it. Include the STAR within your flightplan, and that way when you contact approach at 40nm and then ask for a particular approach as i explained in the paragraph above, your halfway through flying your STAR anyway.The other way to do it is after selecting the approach as explained in the paragraph above, then input the STAR and fly it from that point. Personally, i select the STAR based on weather before i depart and include it within the plan, then when i do the 40nm select approach thing, im already halfway through flying the STAR. STAR's can start a long way out from the airport, so if you wait until 40nm before inputting your STAR (which you have to because RC4 will control you no matter what before this point) then you can be a long way off your STAR's track.I hope i havent confused you!!!Now as to flightplanning itself, im not familiar with the WILCO PUB A319, is this affiliated with the PSS aircraft?If so then i would suggest getting FSBUILD, or if anybody has the WILCO A319, maybe they can tell you if FSBUILD is compatible with that aircraft. I have only just got it but its an excellent bit of gear and certainly helps with respect to SIDS/STARS and which one to fly.Again, hope i havent confused you, any questions give me a yell.

Thank you mate.There's two issues on my mind here.The first is actually reading the plates. I see the route and I see allsorts of different information. Is there anywhere I can learn how to read SID/STAR plates? Going on from this, as the Wilco Airbus doesn't have SIDS in its database that means i'll have to enter each one waypoint by waypoint (once I can read the plates!) I know the PMDG 737 NG has SIDS/STARS in its database and it does all the work for you. Is there anywhere I can get hold of a Wilco SID/STAR database?The second issue is the arrival runway. I don't actually know what STAR to use with my flightplan as RCv4 doesn't tell me the arrival runway until he's vectoring me in. I don't want to request a runway as I might be landing with wind behind me or landing on a take off runway. Is there any way to combat this?Many thanks for your patience.

All the information you can possibly need for the UK is found here http://www.nats-uk.ead-it.com/public/index.php.html then click on UK Aeronautical Information Publication (AIP) and then drill down. Details, including SIDs/STARS for all licensed aerodromes are under Aerodrome Index - Specific. You can find details of chart symbols etc by clicking General Information - Index and scrolling down to GEN 2.2.In the UK STARs are not associated with a specific runway. The are named after the hold at which they terminate and from which an approach can be made to any runway. As a result there can be several individual STARs on a chart with a table on the chart linking each STAR to its associated airway. From example on the Heathrow (EGLL) BIGGIN chart the particular STAR BIG 3B is for arrival via UT420 or T230 airways from the ALESO waypoint

I answered in part your query on the RC forum.Here's another way to get SID/STARS in general into your FMC. I use the payware planner FSBuild. It has a database of SID/STARS that is updated every few months at no cost. I turn off the SR (Stored Route) option as that it just an older database of contributed routes using old data, then auto-generate a plan designating the expected runways. I anticipate the runways in use by looking at the METARS. FSBuild exports plans in several FMC formats as well as FS8/9 and FSX.FSBuild has an option that must be set for each session allowing you to rebuild from the route grid table of waypoints. That allows you to delete waypoints not common for all runways before building and exporting. This is useful when your FMC does have a database for SID/STARS which henceforth I'll call terminal procedures. (For free FMC terminal database procedures for the US and UK areas including Ireland and Scotland, check out planepath.com.) If your FMC does not support a terminal procedure database then just export the whole plan to it.Regarding RC4 for departures if your first plan waypoint is inside 30 nm you will be expected to navigate that on your own to the first waypoint at or beyond 30 nm. If you don't choose either altitude restriction then you'll get vectors to that first waypoint. Assuming your common waypoints start at 30 nm then with either restriction allowing you to navigate on your own you can use the FMC terminal database. For arrival you follow the same procedure in reverse requesting an IAP from RC after you acknowledge the runway assignment.Regarding terminal charts if you search this forum you will find several threads on where to obtain free terminal procedure charts. Although it is being revamped now VATSIM supplies some terminal procedure charts through its chapters. They recommend you use Eurocontrol with its free registration. You may get an e-mail from them asking why you want that information and in my case I answered it was just for IFR sim training and testing an application for it. If you go there be sure you use the facility a few times within a ninety day period or your registration may be terminated.Here's some links:http://planepath.com/html/dafif.html for FMC terminal databases.http://ead-website.ead-it.com/publicuser/public/pu/login.jsp to get registered on Eurocontrol. (That site is a bit difficult to navigate around but you eventually get to the aerodromes at http://ead-website.ead-it.com/publicuser/p...bi0OaNaNc3eKb40 selecting PAMS LIGHT AIP.)http://www.nats-uk.ead-it.com/public/index...p;Itemid=3.html for UK.http://www.fsnordic.net/Links/c1/AviationCharts a useful link for several areas, some current charts, some links outdated.http://www.vatita.net/index.php?dir=aip&pagina=adcharts Italyhttps://www.sia.aviation-civile.gouv.fr/htm...eset_aip_uk.htm Francehttp://www.slv.dk/Dokumenter/dscgi/ds.py/View/Collection-94 Greenland, Faroe Isdlands, Denmarkhttp://flightaware.com/ US terminal charts in .pdf bundles - select airport by ICAO code or name

Thank you for the help guys. I've just had a go with the NATS page, setting off from runway 08R at Gatwick, and I have two issues. Nowhere on the SID plate can I see anything that resembles waypoints? where abouts on the plate is the flight plan in simple way points listed?Also, how do I know which SID/STAR to use if there are more than one for a particular runway?Maybe I am getting in too deep here and should stop trying. Sorry to be a pain.

Thank you for the help guys. I've just had a go with the NATS page, setting off from runway 08R at Gatwick, and I have two issues. Nowhere on the SID plate can I see anything that resembles waypoints? where abouts on the plate is the flight plan in simple way points listed?Also, how do I know which SID/STAR to use if there are more than one for a particular runway?Maybe I am getting in too deep here and should stop trying. Sorry to be a pain.

The SID instuctions are pretty clear: eg BIGGIN departures:"Straight ahead, maintain track 079

The SID instuctions are pretty clear: eg BIGGIN departures:"Straight ahead, maintain track 079

Hi,This may sound silly but I know practically nothing about real world flying. I just looked at the SID charts for Gatwick and there are (more or less) three possibilities for a north-westish departure from RY26: Biggin, Lambourne and Kenet. I know this isn't the best example, there being restrictions according to which airport you're flying to but I'm curious about how one would choose between possibilities in real life.Is it something that's decided by a controller or is the choice made by the pilot as part of a flight plan? (I use RC4 so I know in MSFS the choice is mine anyway up to my first waypoint).Or is that a really stoopid question... is there only one SID for each runway/airway combination and you pick an airway for your flightplan, are given a runway and then fly the appropriate SID?Cheers,Dave

The BIGGIN SID is a very specific one. The notes on it say "For landing at LONDON HEATHROW or NORTHOLT only" It's only used for re-positioning aircraft between these airports.

mghThanks for pointing that out.... i hadn't even noticed. Will give that one a try.

mghThanks for pointing that out.... i hadn't even noticed. Will give that one a try.

You could try it with Chart AD 2-EGLL-7-14 - INITIAL APPROACH PROCEDURES ILS or MLS RWY 27L/R Without Radar Control which looks interesting!

You could try it with Chart AD 2-EGLL-7-14 - INITIAL APPROACH PROCEDURES ILS or MLS RWY 27L/R Without Radar Control which looks interesting!

I have tried that 27L/R approach before, a lot of work for a one man crew !I have been trying a few more complicated approaches recently. Apart from my favourite Kia Tak Rwy 13, I like the Canarsie approach at JFK; the DME arc approach to KLAS Rwy 1, and the PHNL Rwy26L.Peter