Is it OK to bundle up a bunch of freeware on a CD and then sell it at E-Bay and claim the price is for the cost of the CD and an organization fee?

Is it OK to bundle up a bunch of freeware on a CD and then sell it at E-Bay and claim the price is for the cost of the CD and an organization fee?

Yes - if the software is release under a GPL (or similar) licence. No - in all other cases.

My point was rhetorical. I have no ethical or moral objection to anyone setting their own asking price any more than I have to others deciding whether or not to buy at that price. That's the way of the world.

That was unclear to me, sorry... If you say "sheer avarice, greed, and exploitation???" you can't expect me not to reply to that... That was what my reply was about, anyway.

That was unclear to me, sorry... If you say "sheer avarice, greed, and exploitation???" you can't expect me not to reply to that... That was what my reply was about, anyway.

Sorry, I didn't make it clear enough that "avarice, greed, and exploitation" was a quote from another poster

Sorry, I didn't make it clear enough that "avarice, greed, and exploitation" was a quote from another poster

Ah, okay, then I apologize to you. In that case, my reply was not to you but the poster of the original message you quoted.

My point was rhetorical. I have no ethical or moral objection to anyone setting their own asking price any more than I have to others deciding whether or not to buy at that price. That's the way of the world.

MGH...I agree.I routinely distribute my intellectual property online, for free, with no strings attached, not even with a licensehttp://www.braunsblog.comWhy? Because I'm Ok with that and much of my inspiration for my intellectual property comes from other folks who also share their intellectual property without restriction.IMHO, that is the "New Age" of internet transparency. It is a double edged sword. Some good, some bad...but that is life.Braun

Still these replies don't focus on the real issue, which (as another member said best) is someone taking air, bottling it up and making buyers read through the fine print (if they ever get there) that it is not only just air, but someone else's air. If that were done to a commercial product people would be ranting and dropping the pirate bomb all over the place. There is such a friggin' double standard in these forum towards freeware it makes me sick.I have freeware titles on this site and others. I am almost certain that someone, somewhere has distributed my work on a CD or DVD and has not just recouped costs, but made a profit. I expect that to happen--there are morons walking about all over the world and we all fall victim to them at one time or another. What I don't like happening is someone packaging up my work as their own and selling it while burying the fact that I wrote it. I don't care that it infringes against me. I do care that some kid somewhere is going to pay money for something I wanted them to have for free. How the heck do they know it's available for free if it isn't made crystal clear?To the overall group that has hopped on this "tough luck" bandwagon, please explain to the forum why what I have discussed is such a taboo, why buyer beware or "that is life" is your line on such things and don't discuss it if you don't like it? Or do I have what you're saying all wrong? One final time, I am not talking about the price Flightprosim is being sold at, I am talking about how difficult it is to find out what it really is. Air.Edit: I should mention that someone raised the "money back guarantee" as something a buyer could exercise if they wish to. "Money Back Guarantee" does not reveal that the product is Flight Gear and I doubt the audience Flightprosim is designed to capture is going to find out after they purchased the product. How difficult is it to find out what Flightprosim really is? FlightGear is mentioned once on the main page more than halfway down, and there is no link to the site.-John

If that were done to a commercial product people would be ranting and dropping the pirate bomb all over the place.

correct. but the simulation in this case was released with an EULA that allows redistribution ... even for money. the fault is that of the development team, and a poor choice on their part IMO.

There is such a friggin' double standard...

no. see above.

I have freeware titles on this site and others. I am almost certain that someone, somewhere has distributed my work on a CD or DVD and has not just recouped costs, but made a profit.

i support you in protecting your creations, in writing or by voice, and your right to have re-distribution stopped if you have a EULA that states redistribution cannot happen.

What I don't like happening is someone packaging up my work as their own and selling it while burying the fact that I wrote it. I don't care that it infringes against me. I do care that some kid somewhere is going to pay money for something I wanted them to have for free. How the heck do they know it's available for free if it isn't made crystal clear?

correct. important point. fair point. but, a well written EULA is an important thing.

To the overall group that has hopped on this "tough luck" bandwagon, please explain to the forum why what I have discussed is such a taboo,

what you are saying isn't 'taboo'. the issue is that the EULA for the product being discussed ALLOWS redistribtion for money (see my first comment above).

I am talking about how difficult it is to find out what it really is.

fair point.--

correct. but the simulation in this case was released with an EULA that allows redistribution ... even for money. the fault is that of the development team, and a poor choice on their part IMO.no. see above.i support you in protecting your creations, in writing or by voice, and your right to have re-distribution stopped if you have a EULA that states redistribution cannot happen. correct. important point. fair point. but, a well written EULA is an important thing.what you are saying isn't 'taboo'. the issue is that the EULA for the product being discussed ALLOWS redistribtion for money (see my first comment above).fair point.--

I am not talking about FlightGear or their EULA. I have said that in more than one post. What seems to be taboo in my eyes is standing up for the people taken in by a slick sounding site. The FlightGear/EULA issue is not what I have been here to discuss. If that's what people insist this discussion is, so be it I guess.-John

i support you in protecting your creations, in writing or by voice, and your right to have re-distribution stopped if you have a EULA that states redistribution cannot happen.

I wanted to reply to this directly because I feel you raise something important that often gets overlooked in these discussions. In the case of FlightGear their EULA allows such redistribution, so I won't go there. But freeware authors in general usually don't. Do they have rights to have redistribution stopped? Sure. But who has the budget to go out, hire an attorney, and fight? Freeware authors don't (at least most don't). Many who do have the money don't have the time.Still, we have people in these forums who come in here and say "boo hoo, what do you expect being a freeware author, quit being a crybaby". Maybe they should reinforce their opinions by deleting the freeware they have. Because coming into these forums with their attitude only encourages the sleaze bags in this hobby to steal more freeware and sucker the naive or inexperienced into paying for it. I see these people as members of this forum, but I have no use for them and I don't care if they have any use for me.-John

...What seems to be taboo in my eyes is standing up for the people taken in by a slick sounding site.

"...people taken in..." So they are... victims? Victims of a con game? Or victims of their own poor judgment?I hit Google or Bing looking for a digital camera, see some slick site that promises me my life will be better if I buy the "On-sale" camera for $899.99. I whip out the credit card and place the order, because I want my life to be better! Couple of days later I do some more Google work and find the camera is on sale elsewhere for $149.99 and that it's just a plain digicam. Am I a victim? And if so, of what?Someone Googles flight simulation game and hits the FPS site. Decides then and there to whip out the credit card and place their order for the best thing to hit the skies in a long time! Couple days later they find the FlightGear site...The internet provides too much information, for too many things. But some time spent researching can cure 99% of the victimization. Whether buying FPS is right or not, I do not adhere to the notion that anyone who does is a "victim".To me it's funny, in a sad sort of way. The poor victims get taken by the alleged con site for FPS, but there is almost never any comment about the and I'll be real nice here, "exaggerated marketing hype" that some developers use in hawking their payware. Some of this "exaggerated marketing hype" borders on misleading or fraudulent representations. That, by my definitions, is immoral and or unethical.And even if it does bother me some, the sun will still rise in the east tomorrow morning. In the long run, I have too many other things to worry about than if some poor sap allows them self to become a "victim".

"...people taken in..." So they are... victims? Victims of a con game? Or victims of their own poor judgment?I hit Google or Bing looking for a digital camera, see some slick site that promises me my life will be better if I buy the "On-sale" camera for $899.99. I whip out the credit card and place the order, because I want my life to be better! Couple of days later I do some more Google work and find the camera is on sale elsewhere for $149.99 and that it's just a plain digicam. Am I a victim? And if so, of what?Someone Googles flight simulation game and hits the FPS site. Decides then and there to whip out the credit card and place their order for the best thing to hit the skies in a long time! Couple days later they find the FlightGear site...The internet provides too much information, for too many things. But some time spent researching can cure 99% of the victimization. Whether buying FPS is right or not, I do not adhere to the notion that anyone who does is a "victim".To me it's funny, in a sad sort of way. The poor victims get taken by the alleged con site for FPS, but there is almost never any comment about the and I'll be real nice here, "exaggerated marketing hype" that some developers use in hawking their payware. Some of this "exaggerated marketing hype" borders on misleading or fraudulent representations. That, by my definitions, is immoral and or unethical.And even if it does bother me some, the sun will still rise in the east tomorrow morning. In the long run, I have too many other things to worry about than if some poor sap allows them self to become a "victim".

Do you assume everyone on this forum same level of Internet intelligence (I mean that in a good way, you write articulate posts and I cannot help but enjoy them)? What about the thousands of seniors who are almost every day conned out of their money? My Mom had cancer, it spread to her brain but went undiagnosed for months (until it was too late). She could have fallen victim easily to getting conned were it not for my being close by and keeping an eye on her. As it was, someone tried to steal her identity, apparently someone who was in her home quite often. It's not computer software, it's not the Internet, but it does prove to me in our hobby that we have to be on the side of those who don't have a son, or a loved one, to lead them in the right direction. The way to do that is by shaming sites like Flightprosim out of existence.I don't consider my Mom a "poor sap" nor the person who didn't get as much life experience as many on these forums have had. Regarding overhyped sites, if there is such a thread and it is beyond a shadow of a doubt that the vendor discussed has misled our hobby, I will participate. I have participated in discussions regarding commercial vendors that have practiced unethical behavior and I will continue to do so. However I won't do so based on rumor or innuendo, because that's how people get sued for libel or worse, criminally prosecuted when they ruin a business on purpose.Regards,John

But who has the budget to go out, hire an attorney, and fight? Freeware authors don't (at least most don't). Many who do have the money don't have the time.

that is the rub john. and that is why those that should spend time in prison/jail don't.the same 'rub' exists for payware ... the copyright holders can spend 5,000,000% income chasing down all the torrents (etc) and CD/DVD knockoffs and never stop the problem.--

Still these replies don't focus on the real issue, which (as another member said best) is someone taking air, bottling it up and making buyers read through the fine print (if they ever get there) that it is not only just air, but someone else's air. If that were done to a commercial product people would be ranting and dropping the pirate bomb all over the place. There is such a friggin' double standard in these forum towards freeware it makes me sick.

Canned air is already on sale as, obviously, is bottled water.http://abcnews.go.com/International/story?...9240&page=1Piracy is using others property without authority. FG granted authority for FPS to use their property in the way it is using it.

I have freeware titles on this site and others. I am almost certain that someone, somewhere has distributed my work on a CD or DVD and has not just recouped costs, but made a profit. I expect that to happen--there are morons walking about all over the world and we all fall victim to them at one time or another. What I don't like happening is someone packaging up my work as their own and selling it while burying the fact that I wrote it. I don't care that it infringes against me. I do care that some kid somewhere is going to pay money for something I wanted them to have for free. How the heck do they know it's available for free if it isn't made crystal clear?

The world isn't based around "kids". Advertisers just don't say "by the way you can buy a cheaper equivalent product from our rivals". That's not how the real world is.

To the overall group that has hopped on this "tough luck" bandwagon, please explain to the forum why what I have discussed is such a taboo, why buyer beware or "that is life" is your line on such things and don't discuss it if you don't like it? Or do I have what you're saying all wrong?[/i]

Where has "don't discuss it if you don't like it" been said?. Surely ,the main thrust of this thread has been to discuss it.

One final time, I am not talking about the price Flightprosim is being sold at, I am talking about how difficult it is to find out what it really is.Edit: I should mention that someone raised the "money back guarantee" as something a buyer could exercise if they wish to. "Money Back Guarantee" does not reveal that the product is Flight Gear and I doubt the audience Flightprosim is designed to capture is going to find out after they purchased the product. How difficult is it to find out what Flightprosim really is? FlightGear is mentioned once on the main page more than halfway down, and there is no link to the site.

If FPS was sold at $1 I doubt anyone would be bothered, so I suggest price is significant to this discussion.As far as I am aware, FPS is what's described in the advertisement. No one has claimed that it doesn't deliver what's advertised.As far as knowing what it really is, let me give you an example from the motor industry - - there are many more in other industries as well, especially consumer products. The Ford Galaxy was designed as a joint venture between Ford and Volkswagen and produced at a plant in Palmela, Portugal. It was -badge-engineered to create three vehicles: the Ford Galaxy, the Volkswagen Sharan, and the SEAT Alhambra. The VW engines were supplied with "Ford" badges on the rocker covers. Ford never advertised them as anything other than Fords and certainly didn't re-direct potential buyers to other companies. Again, that's not how the real world is.

... people taken in by a slick sounding site.

'taken in' is such a value statement. people are 'taken in' all the time ... buying more car/truck/RV/boat/house than they need (because of TV shows, commercials, movies, sales staff, etc.); buying name brand <insert any product here>; vacation trips/locations; the list goes on.the real thing is to educate people on being smart customers ... which most people don't want, wish, and/or take the time to do.--