Sorry but I have to express MY OWN PERSONAL OPINION in a rather ranted mode. We all whitnessed recently the release of a couple of payware add on's that made history by anouncing "FULL functional FMC's or MCDU's" "if there is a specific function/button you bett it will be modeled" or "wour new panel will be NEW not an upgraded version of XXX" The new best thing, the king of the hill blah blah blah.. you name it... As expected, and not learning from previous mistakes we all say "... i'm looking forward to fly it" or " you guys are the best..." and " when will it be released.... amazing screenshoot...will it have this this and this...?????" Well, I guess we all know the drill.... hopefully the release day comes and everybody starts saying "...are we there yet??...." and when we are finaly "there" we all rush to buy it EXPECTING a fine FINAL BUGFREE product having implemented ALL the ANOUNCED functions and working FLAWLESS in the majority of the systems. Guess what?? No way!!! the product is still incomplete, untested, without the majority of the ANOUNCED functions, full of bugs, non functional.. you name it!!! Then come the developers saying "that's your fault or your conputer's fault,...did you red the manual??...,...That will be provided in our next upgraded(pay) version,....we are not able to reproduce the problem (altough 20 to 30 costumers had that problem)...or worst they do not say nothing at all, do not show up or do not provide solutions or do not recognize the problem as they're own....or lye about being a NEW???!! panel....So when we see a product that fails to provide the anounced (published) features, some (the majority) serves as unpayed beta testers, some do nothing whayting for a patch, and other go for a refund..Then comes the best part! SOME of fellow costumers or simmers call us FREELOADERS, MOANERS, UNSUPPORTIVE TO THE COMUNITY, when we simply want what we've paied for, thus having to fight both developers and some fellows as well...For those not in the know here are some hard evidence......SSW: lots of potencial, given they'r first atempt to do an add on (a very complex one) but the lack of support is unbeliveble and the majority of the anouced functions are not implemented yet, the ones that are, are full of bugs and an overal result of an early beta release at an insane price using a machine bind registry system that uses hacking technics!!!PMDG: At the same level of SSW, product incomplete full of bugs, errors even in the switch logic!!!, failed to provide the anouced features tha will be adressed in PAY upgrade, equaly an BETA product at an insane price, and worst for those who asked for a refund they say "We cannot provide refunds for electronicaly sold producs" What??? they mean tha an ELECTRONIC company selling an ELECTRONIC product accepting ELECTRONIC payment, cannot provide and ELECTRONIC refund?? give me a breack!!! An they even have the means to know if a person has the product instaled or not! so once a person clears the sofware from the computer and asks for a justifyable refund it should be granted, plus they'r using a machine bind registry system that uses hacking technics. So We have to trust them but they do not trust us...PSS the new release is equaly full of bugs,I was not expecting much of PSS, they are a god entertainement titles company that sells light products, not quite it the majors leage, but generaly bug free functional to the anouced degree and with a good registry system and well priced. When they said that they were making the new 330/340 with NEW panels I belived them, but when I saw the panel I saw just a litle upgrade to the 320 nothing more has been aded, same functions same panel only a bigger outside model.....Generaly we are seeing rushed releases with incomplete untested nonfuncional overpriced products, and wortsa that this the developers expect us to buy them, acept them no questions asked, after lurring us with Lyes.... We all have to impose ourselfs in order to prevent these situations from happening again....thank's for your time, remember it was MY opinion..jos

Ok....... Let me digest that. :-erks Uh, that didn't work. Anyways...First of all, your SSW to PMDG comparison sucks, my friend. You say this is your opinion, but you say "For those not in the know here are some hard evidence......" Evidence is only needed to prove facts, so don't use the word opinion to make your post sound any less offensive than it is...Second, you evidently don't develop. I know, you paid. But PMDG never promised full functionality on the first release. They had STATED the -800/-900 upgrade would also include a panel upgrade.Third, PSS did improve the panel and did an amazing work on the outside model, and a bunch of new soundsets recorded, and got pilots to test their plane... So they did work to do those, if you go see an A320 flightdeck, the similarity to the A330 flight deck will make you understand that they are basically identical. So why reinvent the wheel?And finally, I think you need to chill out. If you don't research beforehand, then the one messing up his act is? YOU. Research about possible flaws, check what's missing... Check what features there are... If you rush and buy, then find it's not what you expected, do not blame the developer.DP

Well i think Jose has some valid points, however software is becoming increasing complex and challenging for developers alike as we attain new boundaries in technology...but i do feel that we are paid beta testers to most of the commercial add on.I am kinda lucky has i only buy 1 payware software addon for FS2004 once a year or so, and that too, after a few months of release so all the bugs are sorted out.

I agree to an extent. But does he need to express his views in such a way?DP

Hey, I feel your pain. I understand your frustration. However, It is WE the consumer that willingly hands over our power without due dilligence.I have never been one to rush and purchase addons. Most of my addons are either freeware or purchases that are fairly well investigated prior to putting down my money.Case in Point:1. I have bought Mesh for the very first time for FS2004. Went to FSGenesis. Heard good things about Justin and his crew, so checked it out. First time purchase, went cheap, and purchased the 76m mesh. It was not to my liking. Justin allowed me to trade in the mesh for a 38m region of my choice. Ended up purchasing the other 4 38m regions, The landclass project, and Hawaii to boot. Even purchased EZ-Landmark by Abacus from his site? Why. Customer service. FSGENESIS rocks. 2. EZ-Landmark it a bit of a downer for me. I works exactly like it promises, it just doesn't do much for me. This one I got caught in the excitement in a thread, and listened to hype, and although there is nothing wrong with the product, it just doesn't fit my flying needs. I should have listened with my head and tried the demo prior to forking out the dough on that one.3. Ultimate Traffic. Read carefully prior to purchasing that one. Bought it knowing it was not ready for FS2004. But also read up on how to make it work prior to purchasing. The "official" update is going slower than expected, but no worries, it's already 75% to 85% functional now. So I'm in no big hurry.The point of this is that we as consumers have the ultimate say. Our dollar. If a developer puts out substandard product, we won't buy it or if we are already stuck we won't buy from them again.Avsim, Flight Sim, and other websites are great resources. Ask in the forums, ping your site manager and request a review.Prior to purchasing, ask the vendor what his return policy is. For example. On software I am "sure" about, I buy at Wal-Mart, because I get an employee discount, because my spouce works there. However, if I am riding the fence on a title, and can't get a feel for it, I buy it at Software ETC. Sure, it costs more, but Software ETC will return it. I did that with Freelancer. Just couldn't get into it, so I returned it and bought three games with it.I am not slammin you bud, you are learning a tough lesson. As long as that credit card or dollar is in your hand, you hold all the cards. When you reliquish it, you are at the mercy of the vendor/developer. Don't listen to pre-production hype. Wait for it to hit the street, and then do your research.You may not be the first one up on AVSIM posting screenies, but in the long run, you will be keeping more of your greenies....

Are we so PC now that we cant let a guy vent some frustration?The developer doesn't need to be coddled. They are getting "paid". If the developer can't handled any criticism, (productive or not) then they are in the wrong business.I work in Technical Support. All I ever get from the phone is loads of garbage from frustrated and angry customers. Some issues we created, most issues we didn't, but we still suck it up and work to satisfy the customer. I NEVER get anyone calling saying..."I just wanted to let you know how great your product is". But then all I have to do is look at the balance sheet and the stock prices and I know we are doing ok.The point is, if you sell something, puting up with frustrated customers is part of the game. If it's too hot, leave the kitchen.

Trying to sum it up. Five or so years of purchasing thousands of dollars of addons for Flight Simulator I have still not learned the valuble lesson of not buying impulsively. That is what many developers prey on. We are always looking for the quick fix, the perfect addon...easy on frame rates, one hundred percent functional, and the best looking. Its an addiction that some have learned how to take advantage of.Unfortunatly there is no nirvina here. There are always limitations and as we become dulled to the high most new planes and new scenery do not meet our expectations. But just as we get disenchanted with the state of our medication there is a whole new world of addicts out there and so the cycle begins again. Some developers dont care about us they are looking for new meat.My suggestions. Get off the merry go round. Explore other things in life come back to flight simulator in a year or so. In a perverted way I get as much enjoyment out of watching the carnival freaks putting on their shows and seeing the customers jerk as I do actually playing the sim.And Oh I rediscovered the joys of X-Plane on three monitors using the Internet gateway.RegardsDennis Waggoner

hi Dennisyou got a good point there, and that is the cause, impatience and expectations placed upon developers at too high levels, but the main cause is impluse buying, i hardly every spend money on add ons, i spend at most about $100 USD per year on software for flight simulation only, some people spend just too much...but then its really hard to get away for a year, cause we are all 'addicted' to this to some extent.

"some (the majority) serves as unpaid beta testers"Of Course We are You Name ONE Software developer that has EVERY Combination of ProcessorMotherboard RamVideo Card SoftwareAnd I'll show you a Bug Free Add on There are SO Many differant combinations of Parameters that it IMPOSSIBLE to develop a DO ALL,Say All,BE All ProductBut I guess your One of the few who Deserve it BTW I'm pretty sure these developers aren't holding a gun to your head Do some research and then Maybe you won't be Disappointed Next Purchase And If you Don't Think it will work Hey DON'T BUY ITWe ALL have a Choice

I hemmed and hawed awhile, then finally bought PMDG's 737TNG so I could use the panel in some BBJ and -800 aircraft. When I installed it, it crashed my FS2k2--twice! Their tech support was no help, I had to completely delete and re-install FS, get new keys, re-edit all my sceneries, textures, etc. And now that I've completely deleted it from my HD, they refuse to give me a refund. So I'm out $40. No more payware for me.

I agree with several of the points expressed in this thread. I've been burned several times by addons I've purchased over the years. It appears to me that the ever increasing expenses associated with flight simming are starting to become personally prohibitive. I've cut way back on the money I'm willing to spend now. It seems that today you can purchase many addons only to find that your going to have to pay for them for the rest of your life to get upgrades etc. Or, you must pay once a year to expect any patches or other support for a given product. I truly appeciate the fact that developers should be compensated for the hard work they put into quality products. But, I'm learning to keep a wary eye out for some fleecing of simmers that seems to be going on as well. Lately my planes are spending alot more time in the hangar and I'm starting to enjoy other types of gaming again--its far less expensive that way.

The only FS payware I have is 767PIC, and I only purchased that recently :) I've seen too many buggy, CPU-intensive, half-assed products over the past few years .... and I haven't even mentioned the Customer "Service" that many of these "companies" give. They contempt their customers :(FS commercial groups can ignore, disrespect and attack their customers ...... can you imagine a company in the "real world" doing that?! They would close down in no time ...........

I downloaded the PSS A340 and the first thing I did was to yank hard back on the stick after takeoff and the plane stalled and crashed. Second thin I did was to roll hard right and the airplane actually barrel rolled!Third thing was to reduce speed very low on an ILS approach. Result was a stall and crash.Not very good for an airplane that protects against this sort of thing is it!Ray Keattch.

This reminds me of the lawsuits on Mac. Donalds. Everyone....EVERYONE knows that eating at Mc. Donalds twice per day EVERY DAY will make you overweight and obese. EVERYONE KNOWS THAT. Yet these people tried to sue Mc. Donalds claiming that they didn't know. Naturally the Judge threw out the case....Everyone here.......EVERYONE knows that commercial addon releases are totally buggy for up to about 6 months after release at best. EVERYONE knows that. Yet people rush out and purchase then complain. Its the same cycle with every new addon release.One thing....Ray, you really, honestly, believed that the PSS airbus would model the alpha protection correctly? I got a bridge here in NY that I've gotta sell.....give me a call. (Remember, they claimed that the A320 series would do the same thing).Finally, I would agree that some of the bugs cannot be discovered because of the different hardware setups in the FS community....but that doesn't explain the fact that most bugs in new releases aren't related to hardware.......case in point...the PMDG NG and the CS727. 95% of the over one hundred bugs in both releases were because of terribly shoddy programming....systems bugs.....NOT hardware setups.I'm one of the "smarter" FS addicts now.......I'll read the rants on the forums, and when they die down and the praises start then I'll buy.

I understand your frustration, however, not all companies are the same. Currently, I have the DF737, PSS Dash-8, PSS A320, PMDG 737, and the 767 PIC. Out of all of these, my personal favorites are the PMDG and the 767PIC. Why? Because the 767PIC works great and seems to have a lot of realistic features, including failures and a great autoland. Plus, the 767 is mainly devoid of bugs since it's been out a while. As far as the PMDG, I can't really say I've had any real problems with it! Aside from the fuel issue and some minor switch logic (which hasn't been an issue with me), I can't complain. The flight dynamics are excellent, and it also autolands just perfectly. I find that my hand-flown approaches are much better, because it doesn't fly like a Cessna or small commuter, like the PSS Airbus. As long as you follow the correct procedure with the PMDG it works fine. I also don't think it's over-priced. They give you liveries for free, whereas others feel they have to charge! PMDG just released this add-on, therefore I know the problems will be fixed in time.The PSS products and others like them (e.g., Ariane) are what get me. I like the Airbus and Dash-8, however, the Dash-8 isn't nearly what I thought it would be. The Airbus 320 package is another one. I wanted an Airbus and knew the PIC wasn't something I'd like. The thing about the Airbus is, it looks really sharp, inside and out. However, the plane has a nose down attitude while in flight, which aside from looking unrealistic IS unrealistic. The fact that hardly anything on the panel even switches, let alone does anything is absurd. I have to say that my biggest complaint is the overpriced liveries. To charge over 7 dollars for one paint job is asinine!! I realize they look great, but 7 bucks when others give theirs just as good for free? I also think the FD of the Airbus is a joke; The plane handles like a jet fighter and when I try to land without AP it sometimes won't descend properly. Also, try complaining to PSS in their MODERATED forum.All in all, each company has it's own ideas and agendas about their products. Some are out for money only, while others try to fix the problems for patient customers. I've said it before, I think some people are never happy and should actually go fly real planes. Given some of the complaints and requests I've seen, it's a wonder anyone's happy.