Hi all,today I've tried a manual pattern with the 747-400X and what I was wondering if any other have the issue, that the plane loosing its bank after you center your flightcontrol. I've tried the MD11 and voilá it keeps the bank´as it should be in real life.Maybe its just my Flightsim but when you fly the real 747, the bank stays as long as you do not turn your yoke in the opposite direction.Thanks...Sven

My somewhat pedestrian understanding of wing design tells me that and airplane (due to wing design), lacking any fly-by-wire or other assistive technologies, doesn't want to maintain bank without pilot input or trim forces to hold it there: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dihedral_(aircraft)Assuming that you are a 747-400 pilot, could you please tell me what is wrong with my own understanding of wing design?

I guess i'll agree with Jeff. I Always felt the 747 didn't hold a bank angle for long due to aerodynamic forces on the wing, much like airplanes don't hold a pitch angle without trim input. I may be wrong thou

I guess i'll agree with Jeff. I Always felt the 747 didn't hold a bank angle for long due to aerodynamic forces on the wing, much like airplanes don't hold a pitch angle without trim input. I may be wrong thou

Based on the fact that when in flight, the wings create a dihedron (they form a slight 'V' due to wing flex), I would guess that the 74 would want to roll level. In the smaller aircraft I fly in real life, in particular the Piper Arrow, there is a rather pronounced dihedral which does help the aircraft roll wings level on its own, it doesn't happen too quickly, but it does happen providing the bank angle is reasonable. If you get it just right, it will hold the bank angle. A little more than that and it will just keep rolling and you actually have to use a little opposite aileron to hold the bank.

It actually has nothing to do with wing design, its more a aircraftsystem question.When you bank the aircraft 30° it stays there until you bank opposite.This is the case in allBoeingmodells(at least 737,747,777) Regards Sven

It actually has nothing to do with wing design, its more a aircraftsystem question.When you bank the aircraft 30° it stays there until you bank opposite.This is the case in allBoeingmodells(at least 737,747,777)

No, you are mistaken: neither the 747 nor the 777 has CWS. And, furthermore, if you want to have the 737 hold a bank angle, CWS has to be activated.So, in these aircraft, it DOES have to do with wing design.

No, you are mistaken: neither the 747 nor the 777 has CWS. And, furthermore, if you want to have the 737 hold a bank angle, CWS has to be activated.So, in these aircraft, it DOES have to do with wing design.

+1

One additional thought, are you adding enough rudder to induce a coordinated turn?

One additional thought, are you adding enough rudder to induce a coordinated turn?

Just out of curiosity, for airliners do you still need to apply rudder in a bank when the ailerons are neutral?

Just out of curiosity, for airliners do you still need to apply rudder in a bank when the ailerons are neutral?

No, the rudder in flight has three uses.1.Engine out.2.Decrab in a crosswind before landing.3.Footrest........

No, the rudder in flight has three uses.1.Engine out.2.Decrab in a crosswind before landing.3.Footrest........

Then how do you make coordinated turns? Is this the function of yaw-dumpers?

No, you are mistaken: neither the 747 nor the 777 has CWS. And, furthermore, if you want to have the 737 hold a bank angle, CWS has to be activated.So, in these aircraft, it DOES have to do with wing design.

O.k. I assume you never flew one of these mentioned aircrafts in real life, you better do so before making statments!I'm not talking about CWS.Btw the 737 does NOT need CWS to be engaged to hold the bank! Try a real simulator and you will get a clue...But hey maybe I'm mistaken ;-)Sven

My somewhat pedestrian understanding of wing design tells me that and airplane (due to wing design), lacking any fly-by-wire or other assistive technologies, doesn't want to maintain bank without pilot input or trim forces to hold it there: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dihedral_(aircraft)Assuming that you are a 747-400 pilot, could you please tell me what is wrong with my own understanding of wing design?

...or other assistive technologies...? I think you will find there are quite a few 'assistive technologies' involved in moving the control surfaces of a 747.

Then how do you make coordinated turns? Is this the function of yaw-dumpers?

The yaw-dampers are only to prevent excessive yaw during cruise flight generated by asymetric thrust (and only minor asymetry at that) or even yaw tendencies caused by swept wing design. In all aircraft, you need rudder when you roll into (ie. displace the ailerons) a bank due to the increased drag pulling you in the opposite direction of the turn. Once the ailerons are returned to neutral, even if in a bank, the turn should for the most part already be coodinated. I just wasn't sure if it was different for the 'heavy metal'.

O.k. I assume you never flew one of these mentioned aircrafts in real life, you better do so before making statments!I'm not talking about CWS.Btw the 737 does NOT need CWS to be engaged to hold the bank! Try a real simulator and you will get a clue...But hey maybe I'm mistaken ;-)Sven

If the banks are at certain angles, yes, it will hold without CWS or FBW or whatever. But at most shallow angles, it will begin to roll out without any assistive devices. Any civil varient of the 747 (-100,-200,-300,-400,-400ER,etc.) has none of this. Same goes for the 737 without a CWS. Once again, the roll out is very slow and you hold very very little aileron so it may not be noticeable. Expecially if you've been flying for a while.