Level-D such a shame

[HUSSAR 272]

Well Well Mr. DShutt, You are shooting in your own leg for the third time,I quote: he seemed incapable of working through the problem in any sort of organized way.Fellow AVsim pilots, look at the unofficial Level-D support what kind of action I have made. http://forum.avsim.n...d-such-a-shame/Fot those who can't reproduce the bouncing, dancing, jumping Level-D 767 FSX issue WATCH THESE MOVIE:http://www.youtube.c...h?v=UdlZPoj98Xs1: After hitting the Cost Index you see start jumping.2: The Speed Brake lever goes nuts and makes his own little party3: The Legs page showing half filled rows (also solved with Jim's workaround so one fault is related to another)4: Not on this video but after a while the plane goes Rodeo with 360 turns and smoke coming from the nose wheel.I filled the FMC the same way I do since 2007 with the FS9 model and have 2500+ hours on VATSIM with it.I'm a real world GA pilot so not in the position to fly a real 767 but can imagine (and following the FMC logical path) that after filling the Departure and Arrival it is common to do the SID first.Why? All the info is in it and after that you do the Route, Performance and Take-Off page. Maybe a real 767 pilot can answer this question but for me it is not so important to do it one way or the other. I'm not expecting a 100% real simulator for a fist full of dollars but DO expect some support for it.I made these movie on a plain installed FSX Sp1 + Sp2 without any add-ons or tweaks to see if there maybe was something wrong on my dedicated Win7/FSX drive with tons of add-ons and planes in High Res with High AA-AF. You can read about it also in the other AVsim Unofficial Level-D support forum.This is the last action and comment I will make about these "running out of hand" issue with the Level-D support guys.Happy landings...

Simba, I watched your video. I cannot figure out why you would "activate" your route before even finishing the route entry, it just does not make any sense.You started alright by entering the departure and arrival airport and then selected the DEP/ARR page on the FMC, selected your SID and runway and instead of returning to your route to complete it you pressed "Activate" instead, circled "MEBEX" (?) waypoint which showed 250/_ _ _ and then proceeded directly to the "PERF INIT" page. Of course there will only be a half-filled FMC because you have not entered your route entirely including the SID.Now try this:RTE 1 page Enter DEP & ARR airportReturn to the Route page and enter the route in its entiretyPress ACTIVATE, EXEC button will light up, press the EXEC button the route will be entered into the FMCPress DEP ARR Function Key and press DEP RWY which will produce the SID's available for that runway then press DEP ARR Function Key once again and select ARR RWY Press EXEC buttonCheck your route by selecting MAP on the EHSI Control Panel and select the LEGS page and STEP through the route to certify its integrity. Once complete proceed to the PERF INIT page to complete FMC programming by entering ZFW, reserve, cruise alt. and finally CIProceed to TAKEOFF page and complete the entries.That should be about it, good luck.

[mikea76 184]

Simba, I watched your video. I cannot figure out why you would "activate" your route before even finishing the route entry, it just does not make any sense.You started alright by entering the departure and arrival airport and then selected the DEP/ARR page on the FMC, selected your SID and runway and instead of returning to your route to complete it you pressed "Activate" instead, circled "MEBEX" (?) waypoint which showed 250/_ _ _ and then proceeded directly to the "PERF INIT" page. Of course there will only be a half-filled FMC because you have not entered your route entirely including the SID.Now try this:Enter DEP & ARR airportSelect DEP/ARR page and select your DEP RWY which will produce the SID's available for that runway.Return to the Route page and enter the route in its entirety.Select DEP/ARR page once again and select your ARR RWY which will produce the STAR's available for that runway.Check your route by selecting MAP on the EHSI Control Panel and select the LEGS page and STEP through the route to certify its integrity. Once checked you can then press Activate and procedd to the PERF INIT page to complete FMC setup.

I agree that his unusual way of using the FMC is part of this problem but now I think he is more upset at how he was treated by one of the level-d staff. I read the thread over there and the beta team guy was pretty rude. No need to jump all over a guy who is not writing in his native language.

[CoolP 283]

I agree that his unusual way of using the FMC is part of this problem but now I think he is more upset at how he was treated by one of the level-d staff. I read the thread over there and the beta team guy was pretty rude. No need to jump all over a guy who is not writing in his native language.

Highlighted part = the point of the whole tread and also the main interest about it. I absolutely share your viewpoint there, Sir.I think that video from simba just proved the existence of the thing as some guys tried to write the bug down to be a non existent one, maybe from lack of knowledge though. His tenor remains, the whole support process which took place did upset him, being a (now maybe former) fan of the company. I think he still enjoys the product though, surely for good reason.

[HUSSAR 272]

You know, I feel bad for Simba and like the rest of you I am just trying to help out. Agreed the beta guy was a little harsh, I really do not like that kind of tone that was portrayed not only by Dean Barry but by Word Not Allowed and gjpollit who were most likely trying to be funny but it was not the time nor was it the place for those remarks. This is not the first time, nor will it be the last time that we read of issues regarding support at Level D. But I must also add that Simba let his frustration get the better part of him, I might have been frustrated by individuals making fun of my language skills but I have thick skin and I certainly wouldn't let someone like Dean Barry get to me.In the end Level D has provided a good sim experience for many, many individuals. Any questions I have posed have been answered with professionalism by Daryl and I have helped where I could. I do not frequent the Level D forums because I haven't had many issue, in the end results vary.

[simba_nl 34]

Simba, I watched your video. I cannot figure out why you would "activate" your route before even finishing the route entry, it just does not make any sense.You started alright by entering the departure and arrival airport and then selected the DEP/ARR page on the FMC, selected your SID and runway and instead of returning to your route to complete it you pressed "Activate" instead, circled "MEBEX" (?) waypoint which showed 250/_ _ _ and then proceeded directly to the "PERF INIT" page. Of course there will only be a half-filled FMC because you have not entered your route entirely including the SID.Now try this:RTE 1 page Enter DEP & ARR airportReturn to the Route page and enter the route in its entiretyPress ACTIVATE, EXEC button will light up, press the EXEC button the route will be entered into the FMCPress DEP ARR Function Key and press DEP RWY which will produce the SID's available for that runway then press DEP ARR Function Key once again and select ARR RWY Press EXEC buttonCheck your route by selecting MAP on the EHSI Control Panel and select the LEGS page and STEP through the route to certify its integrity. Once complete proceed to the PERF INIT page to complete FMC programming by entering ZFW, reserve, cruise alt. and finally CIProceed to TAKEOFF page and complete the entries.That should be about it, good luck.

Well, Thx for your comment and workaround. However this is the way I did since 2007 on the FS9 version and NEVER HAD ANY PROBLEM with the FMC and have a lot of short haul flights with SID's and STARS mainly in Germany, Austria and Switserland. As I said, for me it's not so important going one way or the other by filling the FMC but it should be a pinned topic for starting Level-D pilots in FSX comming from the FS9 version who allows these workaround. Don't forget it was a very well known and discussed issue.After discovering it, my first step was looking in the Level-D search and there is realy nothing to find so for me the conclusion was (and still is) They tried to ignore it.Thx any way for your support....Happy landingsPS: Fellow AVsimmers, look at Mr. DSHUTT his personal member profile on AVSIM and his comment on 30 aug 2010 about AVSIM.http://forum.avsim.net/user/100351-dshutt/He must realise that we (the customers) are bringing the money in for him to eat I suppose.Sorry to say but what a arrogant and irritating guy....I hope that PMDG and iFly kicked them out of Simulator business with that kind of attitude.

[Benjamin J 751]

Well, Thx for your comment and workaround. However this is the way I did since 2007 on the FS9 version and NEVER HAD ANY PROBLEM with the FMC and have a lot of short haul flights with SID's and STARS mainly in Germany, Austria and Switserland. As I said, for me it's not so important going one way or the other by filling the FMC but it should be a pinned topic for starting Level-D pilots in FSX when this is a very well known and discussed issue.After discovering it, my first step was looking in the Level-D search and there is realy nothing to find so for me the conclusion was (and still is) They tried to ignore it.Thx any way for your support....Happy landings

To be honest, I think that at this point it's irrelevant how you used to do it. I recommend following the first LDS tutorial to the letter, and see if you still get this problem. If not, then that is the way you should do it. Don't you simply want to fly without problems? I have done at least ten flights the past two days with the LDS767, doing everything sort of by the book (at least when entering the information into the FMC), and have never seen any problems of any kind, and certainly not the problems you describe.

[flytrumpet767 68]

To be honest, I think that at this point it's irrelevant how you used to do it. I recommend following the first LDS tutorial to the letter, and see if you still get this problem. If not, then that is the way you should do it. Don't you simply want to fly without problems? I have done at least ten flights the past two days with the LDS767, doing everything sort of by the book (at least when entering the information into the FMC), and have never seen any problems of any kind, and certainly not the problems you describe.

Like I was saying earlier. I followed the tutorial, never had any bouncing issues. I swear some people are trying to create problems on purpose. Anyway, to each is own, for my part I would much rather fly the plane in a way that doesn't create issues than finding a way to make it crash. If it hadn't been for this post, I would have never known about this bouncing thing.

[simba_nl 34]

To be honest, I think that at this point it's irrelevant how you used to do it. I recommend following the first LDS tutorial to the letter, and see if you still get this problem. If not, then that is the way you should do it. Don't you simply want to fly without problems? I have done at least ten flights the past two days with the LDS767, doing everything sort of by the book (at least when entering the information into the FMC), and have never seen any problems of any kind, and certainly not the problems you describe.

You are absolutly right but to be honest from my side.Filling the FMC in a incorrect way should never lead to these kind of problems. Wrong action, no go... period. but a plane that goes his own life including rodeo has to be solved as soon the developer take knowledge of that event. They know since 2007 but never took action and put the blame by the user with non or hostile arguments.

[simba_nl 34]

Like I was saying earlier. I followed the tutorial, never had any bouncing issues. I swear some people are trying to create problems on purpose. Anyway, to each is own, for my part I would much rather fly the plane in a way that doesn't create issues than finding a way to make it crash. If it hadn't been for this post, I would have never known about this bouncing thing.

I swear some people are trying to create problems on purpose. Is that so? Well, I'm not here to joke Level-D or to promote another sim airplane builder. I'm here since 2007 and look over my posts, I'm only interested in flying the bird over VATSIM instead of searching and yelling about little bugs. As I said and wrote, I was a happy lvd 767 FS9 pilot for years.

[Benjamin J 751]

You are absolutly right but to be honest from my side.Filling the FMC in a incorrect way should never lead to these kind of problems. Wrong action, no go... period. but a plane that goes his own life including rodeo has to be solved as soon the developer take knowledge of that event. They know since 2007 but never took action and put the blame by the user with non or hostile arguments.

That's of course very true and I agree: whatever you do, a plane should no go into a frenzy. Heck, suppose that would happen in real life... I also agree that the treatmeant they gave you wasn't the most pleasant. But, I have a fundamental question for you:Do you or don't you want to enjoy this plane in FSX?If yes, then simply handle the aircraft the correct way! If you get problems from doing things in an unorthodox manner (no matter if it worked in the past, that's irrelevant for as far as I can see), then throw that method overboard and do things the way they always meant to be done. Set aside the trouble you had and start anew. I hate to say this, but if you can fly the plane without trouble, then why don't you simply do so like the other hundreds of people that fly the plane weekly, including me? Heck, you wouldn't have even known about this problem if you would have just used the plane from the start as described in the tutorials.This reminds me of the Aerosoft A320 stuff. People were complaining that FSX CTD's when they crash. Maybe, but you were never supposed to crash the plane... So why crash the plane and complain about a CTD, when you can also fly the plane and handle it the way it was meant to be handled?Do not think I don't understand you and you do have a legitimate reason to be upset. What you found it irritating, but seeing that the chance that you can fly the plane normally is very big if you adjust your habits, I have to ask myself if there is a point in this discussion going even further than it has...

[simba_nl 34]

That's of course very true and I agree: whatever you do, a plane should no go into a frenzy. Heck, suppose that would happen in real life... I also agree that the treatmeant they gave you wasn't the most pleasant. But, I have a fundamental question for you:Do you or don't you want to enjoy this plane in FSX?If yes, then simply handle the aircraft the correct way! If you get problems from doing things in an unorthodox manner (no matter if it worked in the past, that's irrelevant for as far as I can see), then throw that method overboard and do things the way they always meant to be done. Set aside the trouble you had and start anew. I hate to say this, but if you can fly the plane without trouble, then why don't you simply do so like the other hundreds of people that fly the plane weekly, including me? Heck, you wouldn't have even known about this problem if you would have just used the plane from the start as described in the tutorials.This reminds me of the Aerosoft A320 stuff. People were complaining that FSX CTD's when they crash. Maybe, but you were never supposed to crash the plane... So why crash the plane and complain about a CTD, when you can also fly the plane and handle it the way it was meant to be handled?Do not think I don't understand you and you do have a legitimate reason to be upset. What you found it irritating, but seeing that the chance that you can fly the plane normally is very big if you adjust your habits, I have to ask myself if there is a point in this discussion going even further than it has...

Well, maybe it's because my English is not so good. Sometime it's difficult to write my intentions in the right way but ofcourse, when I figured out that filling the FMC in another way (thx again Jim for your tip) solved the problem for me there is no issue anymore. I still want to fly the 767 in FSX but expected another approach from the official support guys. The way they handle bugs and customers makes the step for me easier to go to the 737 as soon there is a good one.Happy landings...

[flytrumpet767 68]

I swear some people are trying to create problems on purpose. Is that so? Well, I'm not here to joke Level-D or to promote another sim airplane builder. I'm here since 2007 and look over my posts, I'm only interested in flying the bird over VATSIM instead of searching and yelling about little bugs. As I said and wrote, I was a happy lvd 767 FS9 pilot for years.

Does entering information in the FMC the way it's written in the tutorial prevents you fom being happy?Again I'm not disputing the fact that the problem is not happenning. It just seems to me the solution to it is a simple enough one.

[Benjamin J 751]

Well, maybe it's because my English is not so good. Sometime it's difficult to write my intentions in the right way but ofcourse, when I figured out that filling the FMC in another way (thx again Jim for your tip) solved the problem for me there is no issue anymore. I still want to fly the 767 in FSX but expected another approach from the official support guys. The way they handle bugs and customers makes the step for me easier to go to the 737 as soon there is a good one.Happy landings...

So then the problem is solved. But please, don't give up on the 767... When it flies good, the plane is awesome. It has become my favorite plane. And don't worry about that 737, it will comeAnd by the way, I don't think your English is that bad. For all I've seen in this thread, your English is good as any other's.

[simba_nl 34]

Does entering information in the FMC the way it's written in the tutorial prevents you fom being happy?

Do I realy have to answer this question? What are you trying to suggest? that I'm only will be happy if the FMC is doing it the way I will because it always did in FS9?THE ANSWER IS NO.... Who are you, a Level-D guy/hugger who want to defence Mr. DSHUTT or something?Dispite it is my own (WRONG) workaround that creates a bouncing 767 it should never have happenend because the error is known since 2007 and must be a pinned topic to prefent others for these very annoying bug even if it's there own fault due to input error.Is Level-D only interested in real world 767 pilots or top notch sim pilots with perfect understanding of the dynamics and workarounds?It's easy to suggest, Read the f..cking manual before you complain... In some cases I understand that and it must be very annoying for a support guy to give the same answers over and over again but hé, stay out of the support business if you can't handle that.Don't forget, They know about it very well and keep it from there forum with a reason and only blame the knowledge of the customer by acting surprised and even can't reproduce the fault. Hell, they know about the bug since 2007. Is it real to belief that a real world 767 goes nuts at the Apron when the pilot makes a input error in the FMC? NO !!! It's in the line of expectation that the simulated FMC gives a message, Sorry, wrong input or simply remains "unfilled" and you will be forced back to the manual.There was also a bug with double starting engines for years and come on... If you are thinking that you are a 100% perfect Sim plane developer, why is there a Beta gauge to solve this bug after.... 4 years...They can sit on there holy cloud thinking that they are the best and one and only and they are out of business very soon.Guys, how can I say it better or in another way, I'm happy with the correct tip from JIM about the workaround, happy to fly the bird again the way it used to be but getting more and more upset about the Level-D support route and some of the Level-D huggers that want to fight with me on non arguments to protect there beloved company.

[CoolP 283]

Simba, as a guy who really understands your emotions and the intentions of the thread, I'd beg you to leave such things out of public posting.

Sorry to say but what a arrogant and irritating guy....I hope that PMDG and iFly kicked them out of Simulator business with that kind of attitude.

I was always with you on the main issue, which is the treatment from the support guys, but such sentences really put your class down at least two steps. Let it be up to the readers to judge about D. Shutt's behaviour in this case, while the general impression does not get affected by single events I think. Insulting him does not do him justice, no matter what happened so far.I can also follow your surprise about some "LD huggers" here and there as they are, in my eyes, losing quite some objective viewpoint ability when it comes to their darling, but lets keep the speech plain and simple, and also free of insulting items. The "hugger" impression kicks anybody out of a constructive discussion, but a "hater" thing would do to, so try avoiding the second thing.Your problem description and that video clearly showed that there is something to work on or work around, that fact alone should show that you are not nuts to demand some solution. And, I don't think that anybody will doubt this, demanding a solution is a very basic and reasonable customer right, the demand therefore more than valid.