"Oh, but MGH, what about all the other FS forums that are out there and what about what MS has said?" :( :( :( Sorry everyone, but those that post, visit, read, participate, and support any FS forum are not the target market for any version of FS. We are a very small part of the total market and some of you are having a real hard time admitting that to yourselves.That is funny too. Every FS site on the Internet could disappear and MS wouldn't care one bit nor would it change anything. Nothing in Flight was or is changed because of "our fears about the dumbing down of Flight". MS has always done what they thought was best for the casual user.

We are a very small part of the total market and some of you are having a real hard time admitting that to yourselves.

But a very important small part to MS :( Bryan.

No, you are totally blinded by your ego and lack of understanding. :( :( :(

No, you are totally blinded by your ego and lack of understanding. B) :( :(

LOL, did I step on your toes or something? :( Bryan.

That is funny too. Every FS site on the Internet could disappear and MS wouldn't care one bit nor would it change anything. Nothing in Flight was or is changed because of "our fears about the dumbing down of Flight". MS has always done what they thought was best for the casual user.

Still went out of their way to communicate with us though did they not? :( Bryan.

JSkorna,How do you reconcile your assertions that :1. People who consider themselves FS enthusiasts are a very small part of the target audience for Flight2. MS does not care about what enthusiasts think3. The sliders are there to future-proof the gamewith the fact that casual gamers play the game for a few weeks, do not visit forums after that time and buy no add-ons.If MS cared only about casual gamers, then there is no reason for future proofing, communicating with the FS community, SDKs, support for all kinds of controllers beyond a simple joystick and the list goes on.Over the years, MS has clearly demonstrated that it cares about the FS community, has added functionality that enthusiasts had asked for and has re-iterated those things when we had concerns.It is also clear that while the enthusiasts community sales were good enough for MS in the past, in the light of other games selling much better, MS would like to increase its sales of FS. It is trying to do so by adding features that they think will accomplish this (eye candy, on-line play, store). This does not mean that they will gut the game and leave the enthusiasts out in the cold.I am an FS enthusiast, but a casual player of many other games, so if I see the enthusiasts of these other games complaining about those games, I am far less likely to run out and buy it. I am fairly certain the same goes for FS.

Still went out of their way to communicate with us though did they not? :( Bryan.

I must have missed that! What FS forum did Microsoft go out of their way to communicate with us?Regards, Mike Mann

I must have missed that! What FS forum did Microsoft go out of their way to communicate with us?Regards, Mike Mann

Think it was in pc pilot of something, they want to keep the existing fidelity so we can fly our PMDG'S or whatever. So much for only caring about the casual simmer eh?Bryan.

JSkorna,How do you reconcile your assertions that :1. People who consider themselves FS enthusiasts are a very small part of the target audience for Flight2. MS does not care about what enthusiasts think3. The sliders are there to future-proof the gamewith the fact that casual gamers play the game for a few weeks, do not visit forums after that time and buy no add-ons.If MS cared only about casual gamers, then there is no reason for future proofing, communicating with the FS community, SDKs, support for all kinds of controllers beyond a simple joystick and the list goes on.Over the years, MS has clearly demonstrated that it cares about the FS community, has added functionality that enthusiasts had asked for and has re-iterated those things when we had concerns.It is also clear that while the enthusiasts community sales were good enough for MS in the past, in the light of other games selling much better, MS would like to increase its sales of FS. It is trying to do so by adding features that they think will accomplish this (eye candy, on-line play, store). This does not mean that they will gut the game and leave the enthusiasts out in the cold.I am an FS enthusiast, but a casual player of many other games, so if I see the enthusiasts of these other games complaining about those games, I am far less likely to run out and buy it. I am fairly certain the same goes for FS.

Some people get very high and mighty when ever the subject of flight sim is discussed, but the truth is it is just a game like any other and as such is subject to the need to appeal to greatest number of potential customers possible.As you pointed out bad reviews turn people off, I play other games too and if a game I am interested in gets a bad rap on the reviews it drops right of my radar.Bryan.

Microsoft itself has admitted we're not the target market."Many of you are concerned that because we want to appeal to a wider audience, we must be building an arcade gameWe don’t need to create an arcade game to welcome a wider audience. But we do need to improve the total user experience if we’re to be successful in welcoming new audiences into the experience of Flight. The passion and fascination of flight is powerful, with so many different aspects to aviation and different levels of enjoyment to experience. There is distinct value and strength to be gained by welcoming a wider audience, and we can’t claim to have done the best job of it in the past."http://www.microsoft.com/games/flight/#news2

Microsoft itself has admitted we're not the target market."Many of you are concerned that because we want to appeal to a wider audience, we must be building an arcade gameWe don’t need to create an arcade game to welcome a wider audience. But we do need to improve the total user experience if we’re to be successful in welcoming new audiences into the experience of Flight. The passion and fascination of flight is powerful, with so many different aspects to aviation and different levels of enjoyment to experience. There is distinct value and strength to be gained by welcoming a wider audience, and we can’t claim to have done the best job of it in the past."http://www.microsoft.com/games/flight/#news2

So, if FSX were an arcade flight game and MS wanted to widen the audience by adding more serious simulation functions, then the target audience would be the enthusiast market? Even though it would add only 10-25% more sales?What I read from your quote is that MS wants to widen, not replace, the audience by adding people who have not bought previous releases. You make it sound like the target audience is the arcade market, which MS is NOT building."We don’t need to create an arcade game to welcome a wider audience."

MODIFIED.We don’t need to create an arcade game to welcome a wider audience. But we do need to improve the total user experience if we’re to be successful in welcoming new audiences into the experience of Flight (= $). The passion and fascination of flight is powerful, with so many different aspects to aviation and different levels of enjoyment to experience. There is distinct value ($) and strength (= more $$) to be gained by welcoming a wider audience, and we can’t claim to have done the best job of it in the past."The ONLY way MS will be able to pull this one off is to implement the engine like Austin will do with X-plane, read his post here....http://forums.x-plan...showtopic=47604I'm not a MS or X-plane a really excited user but IF x-plane is as everything described in this post I think we will be on for a good ride...

@ HughesMDflyer4 Thanks for posting these comparisons.BTW where did you get that RV-6, I own a 9A and have been looking for an RV for my sim, the best I could do is fly the SF-260 from Realair with the gears down LOL.

Microsoft itself has admitted we're not the target market.

Every customer belongs to a potential market, "serious" simmer or not.Never underestimate the value of repeat business.Bryan.

@ HughesMDflyer4 Thanks for posting these comparisons.BTW where did you get that RV-6, I own a 9A and have been looking for an RV for my sim, the best I could do is fly the SF-260 from Realair with the gears down LOL.

It's an RV-7 I used....couldn't find a 6. And it's an FS9 model being used in FSX.I believe this is the one I used:http://simviation.com/1/search?submit=1&keywords=RV-7&x=0&y=0