Not using them or using them after you've done everything results in the same thing: skipping some items. Not every time... Hell, maybe not even a thousand flights in a row, but that one time just might be enough to make sure it's your last.Of course, this is only simulation, but in real life, a checklist should be followed item after item. Way too much crews don't do this, which is a crying shame. PS: Should this come off a little harsh, terribly sorry. I sure don't mean it that way

What I was trying to say is that the crews do follow the checklist item by item, but after the fact, not during or before. That's why it's a check list, and not a to-do list. That's why the crew goes "check", because they're verifying, and not performing the said task...

I see, in that case I misread your post...Nothing to see here, carry on. :(

Trust me, I come across as ###### or otherwise everyday in here (sometimes I actually am). I feel your pain man.

Someone who understands! Thank you!

I see, in that case I misread your post...Nothing to see here, carry on.

lol, no biggie.

and there isn't certainly much on an ol' 170's checklist but I have that thing out on my lap every time and follow it. You start memorizing too much stuff you'll miss things. Place I work for definitely has both pilots looking at the checklists when they are doing them...with a typical challenge and action response between pilot-flying and pilot-not-flying.

I know for a reason there are many PPLers that will use the checklist on their ole Cessna this way, basically read the list and perform the items. This is understandable because a great deal of them doesn't fly THAT often so they don't really have their routine. Still, it's just not what a checklist is for, as has been explained above. A checklist is NOT a manual to tell you how to operate a plane. HOWEVER, I still favor those that use their checklist like a manual rather than have no idea at all, don't use checklists at all, and guesswork their "procedures" and settings.

No. Sorry man, that's not the idea of a checklist. Yes you should know the items by heart, but the checklist should still be followed item by item, rather you know the items or not.

BTW - Where do I find memory items on the NG? I know some older QRHs that had memory items boxed, but I can't see this concept in the NG QRH.

Well, from watching videos from ITVV and JustPlanes, what I saw most of the time was the crew performing their tasks as if they had memorized the normal procedures, and then referring to the checklist to review what they had already done, item by item after each stage, and not holding the checklist on one hand, reading each line and going for the knob/switch the item called for to change it. But then again, I'm only a private pilot trained in a 172, so what would I know about real life airline ops.

You saw that correctly.

Do you know what happens when you do things by heart without checklists in real life?

Not sure that's quite the point here, but of course you are right when you don't use them at all the likelihood to get into more serious trouble increases a couple orders of magnitude.

Not using them or using them after you've done everything results in the same thing: skipping some items. Not every time... Hell, maybe not even a thousand flights in a row, but that one time just might be enough to make sure it's your last.Of course, this is only simulation, but in real life, a checklist should be followed item after item. Way too much crews don't do this, which is a crying shame.

Hey man, no offence meant, but it's just wrong. You'll certainly skip items when you use the checklist like a manual, not when you use it as intended. You throw away your redundancy. Did you read the FCOM pages exhaustively describing the cockpit flows? The way how it shall be done is, perform your flow as appropriate per stage of flight (and yes, you SHOULD know by heart how the plane need be set up in all stages or normal flight), THEN read the checklist and see if you forgot something (redundancy). In a multi pilot environment it works similar. You usually have certain "points" or "triggers" during the flight where flows and subsequently checklists shall be performed. Say as an example, after engine start, there's a number of things to do. CM1 might call for 'before taxi checklist". CM2 then performs his flow (say for an NG, for instance get generators online, engage probe heat, set A/C, set engine start sws, shutdown APU, set take off flaps), and CM1 might also have something to do, e. g. check flight controls. Then once they are done (!), CM2 reads the checklist, one item after the other. CM1 "checks" each item (NOT "performs") and reads out its current STATE. That way the CM2 can compare to the checklist if the system is in the state it should be. If it is, then he may continue, otherwise he will object. Of course, when the CM1 comes across an item that is not as it should be, he would correct it right away and then call out its state (because usually they know how it should be set...), but that's just the routine I suppose. In non normals though (except for memory items because they need be done quick) it's important to perform items according to the list (different concept). In this case, it works like this: Read out item AND required status. Example: "Engine start lever - cutoff." Perform item and verbally verify current status - "cutoff". Move on to next item. Some items even require both pilots to assure the correct item is be done (inadvertent shutdowns of healthy engines come to mind).

What I was trying to say is that the crews do follow the checklist item by item, but after the fact, not during or before. That's why it's a check list, and not a to-do list. That's why the crew goes "check", because they're verifying, and not performing the said task...

Well said. I think it's just a general major misconception to set up the plane according to the list. Redundancy is simply void that way. STILL, as I said above, it all depends a bit, for an airline I think it's a no-go, for a PPL as I said above (because he probably just CAN'T maintain the routine to do his flows from memory) I still prefer that method over not following ANY procedure at all. So again, and because someone wrote about the difficulties with the 'tone' in written posts, don't get me wrong here. I'm just objecting for safety reasons of course! And finally a word to the OP - great job! Originially I read this thread on my phone any it looks brilliant. One suggestion though - the "heading ___, altimeter ___, flaps ___" etc items, they don't really need these input fields. In fact, the "___" on the checklist only indicates you should read out aloud the current value, but it isn't there to fill something in. It just means the value might vary depending on circumstances and need be read off the instrument. So my suggestion would be to leave the ___ in the list instead of the input boxes.Otherwise - excellent job and certainly handy on a mobile device. In case there are any iOS users around I think there's an app called "Checklist Lite" or something like that. It might take some time to fill in all NG checklists (I did it of course...) and TBH it's more a gimmick than anything. But I like its looks and functionality, you might use it in lieu of the yoke checklists (they have that little "button" you can place next to an item).

I'm not a RW pilot myself, but use checklists regularly at my work. A checklist is not a to-do list! To-do lists often consists of steps needed to be done in order to get to a point while checklists are always used after you've gotten to a certain point to _check_ if you've done everything needed to be done. At least that's how we use lists in project planning/management and I assume this is not too much different in aeronautics. Though, do correct me if I'm wrong! Cheers,

A lot of simmers actually prefer having the expanded normal procedures in lieu of a normal "checklist." Especially when first learning the plane. Then once they get the hang of it the checklist is all they need.

I'm pleased to announce that a more detailed checklist is now on online. point your browser on your phone/tab/pad to http://fs.kwt.no and take a look, its located under checklist and advanced. This will guide you through all steps of the flight (ground to air to ground) :)

Looks great! Nice idea !!Looking forward and can´t wait to test it in my AndoidOS ->2.3 HTC THX

just a short question.. arent iphones and andriods not able to read pdf? mine is..

A lot of simmers actually prefer having the expanded normal procedures in lieu of a normal "checklist." Especially when first learning the plane. Then once they get the hang of it the checklist is all they need.

Absolutely. That's probably the best way to learn it as a simmer until you get the flows right. Read FCOM Vol 2 in parallel and that should get you started.

At least my iPhone and my Android device is able to read PDF's.. :)

Cant speak for Android, but a lot of PDFs perform pretty poorly on iOS by default. Particularly aviation type charts because they are so complex. It's not bad though, just a slow. It's also not easy to search, for example if you were to put the entire FCOM on your device it would be virtually impossible to navigate through the whole document looking for specific things. Goodreader is a great app for viewing PDFs though, I'm pretty sure they are using their own custom PDF renderer rather than relying on the internal iOS one.

Yeah could be a good idea to use another reader. On Android at least my Galaxy SII works very well.

iphone and androids can read pdf. iPhone you can also download iBooks which you save pdf. Android can download pdf's too its jsut cant think of the app or apps off the top of my head

I've been using the Flight Crew Assistant from the FS2CREW guys. It's very handy with flow references and audio checklists. Probably a little pricey at $15, but I've been getting a lot of use out of it.