Real World NGX Pilots how on earth do you remember all this

[raymar 969]

In fact, im not sure your average airline pilot would know all that an airplane is done to to being brought from cold dark to fully operational. The CDU has so many pages that a pilot has never seen, you'd be surprised. That gets even funnier on 777s and most airbuses. I have seen the printer of an a340 print pages and pages of reports and complicated screens on the maintenance display. There is so much about the more electronic airplanes that even rated pilots dont know. I remember a time that we had a pretty hard touch down. Right after we left the active runway, the printer started spitting reports like no tomorrow. We were like, what the hell's this... I'm sure the operating crew had heard of the airplane doing that, but they certainly never saw it happening on one of their flights. It was a report on the high G touchdown. It cited regulations on what had to be revised befor the airplane could take off again. This was in Sydney, and when the engineer arrived, it all made sense to him. Sat down on the captain's seat and started trully navigating through pages and pages on the screens related to maintenance, and more and more printing, and phonecalls... It takes more than pilots to get these things to work.

Very Interesting. Thanks for story.Ray

[FlyingBubbles 15]

In fact, im not sure your average airline pilot would know all that an airplane is done to to being brought from cold dark to fully operational. The CDU has so many pages that a pilot has never seen, you'd be surprised. That gets even funnier on 777s and most airbuses. I have seen the printer of an a340 print pages and pages of reports and complicated screens on the maintenance display. There is so much about the more electronic airplanes that even rated pilots dont know. I remember a time that we had a pretty hard touch down. Right after we left the active runway, the printer started spitting reports like no tomorrow. We were like, what the hell's this... I'm sure the operating crew had heard of the airplane doing that, but they certainly never saw it happening on one of their flights. It was a report on the high G touchdown. It cited regulations on what had to be revised befor the airplane could take off again. This was in Sydney, and when the engineer arrived, it all made sense to him. Sat down on the captain's seat and started trully navigating through pages and pages on the screens related to maintenance, and more and more printing, and phonecalls... It takes more than pilots to get these things to work.

And on modern aircraft your damn lucky to have electronic printouts... On ships were not so lucky, we engineers have to sweat through every system down in the dirt and grime just to diagnose something sometimes as simple as a dirty filter. MJ O'Donnell

[raymar 969]

So these conversations are getting me to thinking we need a saved state that is properly identified that is typical of the Long Turn as maybe defined and refined by this thread. Heck, it could possibly happen that it has already been done by the team, their friends, consultants, and beta testers, and those other airline pilots we occasionally hear about and we just don't know anything about it because the documentation has not been released yet. Ray

[Paul_Smith 92]

... I am an average person and think i could have been a really good airline pilot ...

Not being disrespectful, but I would rather not have an 'average person' as the pilot on any flight my family were on.

[FlyingBubbles 15]

So these conversations are getting me to thinking we need a saved state that is properly identified that is typical of the Long Turn as maybe defined and refined by this thread. Heck, it could possibly happen that it has already been done by the team, their friends, consultants, and beta testers, and those other airline pilots we occasionally hear about and we just don't know anything about it because the documentation has not been released yet. Ray

I beg to differ. The situation files have been properly defined but perhaps need a bit of refining. Going back to the origin of this thread, RW pilots don't remember absolutely everything... hence the need for the proper use of checklists. In any situation, if you use your QRH and checklists and perhaps some deductive logic you should be fine... no cause for concern. MJ O'Donnell

[kevinh 409]

This, this exactly how I've mastered my 747. It's been almost 2 years since I've been flying the queen, I've logged about a thousand hours in it. At first It was a checklist activity, but now I don't even use the lists anymore, everything is in there... (Of course, after a fairly long LOA I make a few check flights then it's back up to speed.)

I've never bothered much with checklists, nor have I ever read a manual from cover to cover. I read enough to find out how the systems are operated if I don't already know. The rest is mostly basic pre-flight set up and making sure all the warning lights are out. Obviously you can't drive a real plane like this, but this is a hobby to be enjoyed, not endured. I get no satisfaction from following checklists, but I realise for many simmers they are an essential part of the hobby. There is however something peculiarly satisfying (for me at least) about setting up the FMS properly, building a route from scratch and then watching the autopilot fly it. What really bugs me are sims which are programmed to only work if the checklist is followed exactly. This can mean that some unrelated switch which is not in the right place will prevent the engines starting. Fortunately PMDG, and a few other quality developers, don't do this so I can enjoy their simulations much more. Kevin Hall

[Airbus Commander 563]

Okay, sorry about earlier, had a phone call I had to take. So, lets go through it then; Short Haul:Everyday, each aircraft will get an engineers check. The engineers will arrive to the airframe about 4am, at this time the aircraft will bee in the cold and dark setup. Engineers will do thing such as checking oil, tyre pressure, top up the potable water ect. They'll plug in the external power and power up some systems in both the cockpit and the galley. We pilots will typically arrive at the aircraft about 40-50 mins before blocks off time depending. The state will now be known as the "Long Turn" state. We'll power her up, set up the computers, do our walk around, get our clearences, check the W&B figures ect. Then off we go, touching down at some exotic destination 3 hours later. We go into the short turn aircraft state, APU isn't really used, usually we use a ground cart for power but sometimes we do have to use it in smaller airports that are busy in the summer season so all the GPUs are gone. Most airports don't encourage the use of the APU while on stand due to the noise created. After that we jet back to rainy old Ireland, and lets just say for arguments sake, it's the last flight of the day. We'll shut down the engines, myself or the F/O will stand out of the FD and say good by to the SLF, I'll sign the tech log and we'll leave the aircraft in a state similar to what we found it like at 5:30am that morning. The engineers will hop along, fix anything that needs fixing, the cleaning crew will come along and clean her up, [Oh and Omar, I too think that the vacume cleaners hold a grudge against us pilots, I was once smacked across the face by one when I forgot my phone and had to run back and get it, ouch ]. The engineers will then shut her down to cold and dark and lock her up for the night once everone is finished and she'll be left there till 4am the next morning until the whole process starts all over again... Long Haul:Long haul is a bit different, a typical turnaround for a long haul aircraft could be anywhere from 2 hours to 6 hours. When we arrive we put the aircraft into the long turn state, the engineers fix stuff, top up anything that needs topping up. The new crew arrives and off she goes. Long haul aircraft are utilised differently to short haul ones, and depending on the route, the aircraft state you find when you arrive changes from day to day.... Hope this helps and sorry about the delay,Rónán.

[Flexman 30]

What really bugs me are sims which are programmed to only work if the checklist is followed exactly. This can mean that some unrelated switch which is not in the right place will prevent the engines starting. Fortunately PMDG, and a few other quality developers, don't do this so I can enjoy their simulations much more. Kevin Hall

If there's a switch that in the wrong position wouldn't let your engines start... you've obviously got it in the right position because NGX is THAT kind of sim.

[raymar 969]

If there's a switch that in the wrong position wouldn't let your engines start... you've obviously got it in the right position because NGX is THAT kind of sim.

Sure, try starting with the isolation valve closed. Or no bleeds on. Of course the battery switch comes to mind right away. Or maybe no fuel onboard. Lots of conditions to mess up a sim start. Ray

[Niall Hanley 0]

Okay, sorry about earlier, had a phone call I had to take. So, lets go through it then; Short Haul:Everyday, each aircraft will get an engineers check. The engineers will arrive to the airframe about 4am, at this time the aircraft will bee in the cold and dark setup. Engineers will do thing such as checking oil, tyre pressure, top up the potable water ect. They'll plug in the external power and power up some systems in both the cockpit and the galley. We pilots will typically arrive at the aircraft about 40-50 mins before blocks off time depending. The state will now be known as the "Long Turn" state. We'll power her up, set up the computers, do our walk around, get our clearences, check the W&B figures ect. Then off we go, touching down at some exotic destination 3 hours later. We go into the short turn aircraft state, APU isn't really used, usually we use a ground cart for power but sometimes we do have to use it in smaller airports that are busy in the summer season so all the GPUs are gone. Most airports don't encourage the use of the APU while on stand due to the noise created. After that we jet back to rainy old Ireland, and lets just say for arguments sake, it's the last flight of the day. We'll shut down the engines, myself or the F/O will stand out of the FD and say good by to the SLF, I'll sign the tech log and we'll leave the aircraft in a state similar to what we found it like at 5:30am that morning. The engineers will hop along, fix anything that needs fixing, the cleaning crew will come along and clean her up, [Oh and Omar, I too think that the vacume cleaners hold a grudge against us pilots, I was once smacked across the face by one when I forgot my phone and had to run back and get it, ouch ]. The engineers will then shut her down to cold and dark and lock her up for the night once everone is finished and she'll be left there till 4am the next morning until the whole process starts all over again... Long Haul:Long haul is a bit different, a typical turnaround for a long haul aircraft could be anywhere from 2 hours to 6 hours. When we arrive we put the aircraft into the long turn state, the engineers fix stuff, top up anything that needs topping up. The new crew arrives and off she goes. Long haul aircraft are utilised differently to short haul ones, and depending on the route, the aircraft state you find when you arrive changes from day to day.... Hope this helps and sorry about the delay,Rónán.

You sir, deserve a medal for that post :D

[FlyingBubbles 15]

Okay, sorry about earlier, had a phone call I had to take. So, lets go through it then; Short Haul:Everyday, each aircraft will get an engineers check. The engineers will arrive to the airframe about 4am, at this time the aircraft will bee in the cold and dark setup. Engineers will do thing such as checking oil, tyre pressure, top up the potable water ect. They'll plug in the external power and power up some systems in both the cockpit and the galley. We pilots will typically arrive at the aircraft about 40-50 mins before blocks off time depending. The state will now be known as the "Long Turn" state. We'll power her up, set up the computers, do our walk around, get our clearences, check the W&B figures ect. Then off we go, touching down at some exotic destination 3 hours later. We go into the short turn aircraft state, APU isn't really used, usually we use a ground cart for power but sometimes we do have to use it in smaller airports that are busy in the summer season so all the GPUs are gone. Most airports don't encourage the use of the APU while on stand due to the noise created. After that we jet back to rainy old Ireland, and lets just say for arguments sake, it's the last flight of the day. We'll shut down the engines, myself or the F/O will stand out of the FD and say good by to the SLF, I'll sign the tech log and we'll leave the aircraft in a state similar to what we found it like at 5:30am that morning. The engineers will hop along, fix anything that needs fixing, the cleaning crew will come along and clean her up, [Oh and Omar, I too think that the vacume cleaners hold a grudge against us pilots, I was once smacked across the face by one when I forgot my phone and had to run back and get it, ouch ]. The engineers will then shut her down to cold and dark and lock her up for the night once everone is finished and she'll be left there till 4am the next morning until the whole process starts all over again... Long Haul:Long haul is a bit different, a typical turnaround for a long haul aircraft could be anywhere from 2 hours to 6 hours. When we arrive we put the aircraft into the long turn state, the engineers fix stuff, top up anything that needs topping up. The new crew arrives and off she goes. Long haul aircraft are utilised differently to short haul ones, and depending on the route, the aircraft state you find when you arrive changes from day to day.... Hope this helps and sorry about the delay,Rónán.

Hmm... Now I'me confused, perhaps a question of semantics. So the NGX Long Turn situation file relates to the state of the aircraft as it would be during a turnaround after a long haul flight? Conversely, the short turn situation file would be that of a short haul usage? MJ O'Donnell

[raymar 969]

Okay, sorry about earlier, had a phone call I had to take. So, lets go through it then; Short Haul:Everyday, each aircraft will get an engineers check. The engineers will arrive to the airframe about 4am, at this time the aircraft will bee in the cold and dark setup. Engineers will do thing such as checking oil, tyre pressure, top up the potable water ect. They'll plug in the external power and power up some systems in both the cockpit and the galley. We pilots will typically arrive at the aircraft about 40-50 mins before blocks off time depending. The state will now be known as the "Long Turn" state. We'll power her up, set up the computers, do our walk around, get our clearences, check the W&B figures ect. Then off we go, touching down at some exotic destination 3 hours later. We go into the short turn aircraft state, APU isn't really used, usually we use a ground cart for power but sometimes we do have to use it in smaller airports that are busy in the summer season so all the GPUs are gone. Most airports don't encourage the use of the APU while on stand due to the noise created. After that we jet back to rainy old Ireland, and lets just say for arguments sake, it's the last flight of the day. We'll shut down the engines, myself or the F/O will stand out of the FD and say good by to the SLF, I'll sign the tech log and we'll leave the aircraft in a state similar to what we found it like at 5:30am that morning. The engineers will hop along, fix anything that needs fixing, the cleaning crew will come along and clean her up, [Oh and Omar, I too think that the vacume cleaners hold a grudge against us pilots, I was once smacked across the face by one when I forgot my phone and had to run back and get it, ouch ]. The engineers will then shut her down to cold and dark and lock her up for the night once everone is finished and she'll be left there till 4am the next morning until the whole process starts all over again... Long Haul:Long haul is a bit different, a typical turnaround for a long haul aircraft could be anywhere from 2 hours to 6 hours. When we arrive we put the aircraft into the long turn state, the engineers fix stuff, top up anything that needs topping up. The new crew arrives and off she goes. Long haul aircraft are utilised differently to short haul ones, and depending on the route, the aircraft state you find when you arrive changes from day to day.... Hope this helps and sorry about the delay,Rónán.

That is a great description. Thanks a million. I got it all except who is the SLF? Ray

[JokersWild 34]

Take all day. I am actually working on the structure of a true beginners tutorial for this thing. That is why I keep digging for deeper thoughts. I greatly appreciate you taking the time to do this for me. Ray Wow. That is truly a revelation to the sim community. I wonder how many folks know how uncommon the Cold and Dark is? I bet one of those poll posters will have a poll up within the hour. Ray

I'm no real world guy, but just from reading over at airliners.net for years, I'd always assumed that a C&D cockpit would usually only be the first flight of the day unless circumstances warranted having to shut down for maint. I generally start my flights in the long turn set up.

[Airbus Commander 563]

That is a great description. Thanks a million. I got it all except who is the SLF? Ray

Sorry, pilot term SLF=PAX=Passengers

Hmm... Now I'me confused, perhaps a question of semantics. So the NGX Long Turn situation file relates to the state of the aircraft as it would be during a turnaround after a long haul flight? Conversely, the short turn situation file would be that of a short haul usage? MJ O'Donnell

Not quite, as said in the post, before the first flight of the day, the aircraft would be in long turn setup...

[Flexman 30]

Sorry, pilot term SLF=PAX=Passengers

One of the funniest acronyms in aviation.