Are you saying the flare could be performed with only one AP engaged? Without a specific failure scenario, this is yet not possible to set up manually, is it?

Yes, if you leave one AP engaged (on NGs) after DH, it can do alone the flare manouver. However I don't think is safe to try it.

Hm, but I can't set this up, right? If on a dual channel, any disconnection will kill the whole system. I can't think of a way how to have only one AP engaged during that stage. And SINGLE CHANNEL would not work as it obviously doesn't arm flare in the first place.

However I don't think is safe to try it.

I think, in FS it always is. If I only knew how!

Hm, but I can't set this up, right? If on a dual channel, any disconnection will kill the whole system. I can't think of a way how to have only one AP engaged during that stage. And SINGLE CHANNEL would not work as it obviously doesn't arm flare in the first place. I think, in FS it always is. If I only knew how!

The flare function in single channel will not be anounced, but, as it is included in the FCC program, it will work.This can be reproduced by doing a single cannel landing, don't know if works on the PMDG as I never tried.

Just out of curiosity Jason, do you happen to know how much that costs? BTW, are all of the 737s being produced today coming standardized with a Collins MCP?

Are you saying the flare could be performed with only one AP engaged? Without a specific failure scenario, this is yet not possible to set up manually, is it? Actually there is some dependancy. While you can have Collins MCP and ISFD, that doesn't make you fail-op. Those are however requirements, but the fail-op is a seperate switch. In any case if you activate fail-op you'll get the Collins and the ISFD automatically. Well, you can set this up on a per-livery basis. Some have their real world specs included, others don't. And yes, if you lack the C/R button you're fail-passive, regardless of your MCP and standby instrumentation. However if you want to be fail-op, minimum requirement is Collins MCP and ISFD, as stated above.

Do u by any chance know which liverys have the C/R button? And what does ISFD stand for? thanks

ISFD: Integrated Stand-by Flight Display I don't know which liveries have the C/R button but I can tell you every airplane with Fail Operational Autoland have ISFD and C/R button. You can change the option between Fail Operational and Fail Passive in the FMC options.

Integrated standby flight display. And no I don't know a certain "livery" that is fail-op, I only know certain specific registrations that are.

Are you saying the flare could be performed with only one AP engaged? Without a specific failure scenario, this is yet not possible to set up manually, is it? Actually there is some dependancy. While you can have Collins MCP and ISFD, that doesn't make you fail-op. Those are however requirements, but the fail-op is a seperate switch. In any case if you activate fail-op you'll get the Collins and the ISFD automatically. Well, you can set this up on a per-livery basis. Some have their real world specs included, others don't. And yes, if you lack the C/R button you're fail-passive, regardless of your MCP and standby instrumentation. However if you want to be fail-op, minimum requirement is Collins MCP and ISFD, as stated above.

Etienne, I could not find any reference to the C/R button on the Lower DU Selector in either FCOM or Bill Bulfer's 737 Cockpit Companion. What does C/R mean and where can I find any detailed description of the Fail Operational Option including Procedures?TIAHermann (da German)

On classics the flare function is only made with both AP in dual channel (both working, both selfmonitoring and watching what the other does, both with a different and not interconnected power source as when dual will become active, the TR3 will be disconnected) so with a single channel the plane will not flare. On NGs the things are a bit different, the flare function is coded inside each FCC and only one is able to do it. I must check on my manuals if the second one must be active (also if not engaged) with the radio tuned for cross check of functions, but I'm pretty sure you cannot autoland with only one ILS tuned. It is too dangerous to let a single system to manage such a delicate phase of flight. One AP is sufficient, is capable, and by visually checking the operation, pilots sould let the AP to do the job (not legally permitted), but with a single source of information (one ILS tuned) I don't think it is good for operation. An onboard system can break or could give wrong informations, while with 2 systems you can check. Without a second ILS tuned pilots will not ave any oter source of info about how the only tuned ils is working.

If VOR/LOC, APP, activation of second A/P (CMD :( are done in this order and with both NAV radios tuned to the rwy ILS frequency (localizer captured first then G/S), and then the annunciator indicates "No Autoland", what sort of a problem does this indicate ? The DU selector has two switches- ENG and SYS. Thanks,Zach

Are you sure? The autoland status indications are actually only on the fail-op option, or should be at least. Refer to FCOM Vol II 4.20.5 or 15.10.4, 15.20.8.

I could not find any reference to the C/R button on the Lower DU Selector in either FCOM or Bill Bulfer's 737 Cockpit Companion. What does C/R mean and where can I find any detailed description of the Fail Operational Option including Procedures?

I don't think there's a great difference in procedures, but fail-op may use alert height, and you could drop DH completely (as per CAT IIIB). Alert height is 200' in any case (AFAIK).

Virtually no airline has actually ordered the fail operational option for what it's worth... I've only seen a couple and they weren't liveries we painted. (Jetairfly was one) It's enabled in the House livery because we wanted that to represent the most advanced NG you could potentially ever see in the real world, so it has all the options like that turned on.

Most advanced you could see in the real world but no heading reference selector eh? *Wink* Just ribbin ya.

We didn't model the polar navigation option... is there an airline actually flying them over the poles? If so, I'm not aware of it... We didn't set out to model every single option that exists by the way, there are thousands of them, a lot of them after-market too.

Virtually no airline has actually ordered the fail operational option for what it's worth... I've only seen a couple and they weren't liveries we painted. (Jetairfly was one) It's enabled in the House livery because we wanted that to represent the most advanced NG you could potentially ever see in the real world, so it has all the options like that turned on.

Virtually was a very good choice of word Ryan ! Fred.

Virtually no airline has actually ordered the fail operational option for what it's worth... I've only seen a couple and they weren't liveries we painted. (Jetairfly was one) It's enabled in the House livery because we wanted that to represent the most advanced NG you could potentially ever see in the real world, so it has all the options like that turned on.

TUIfly/Hapag-Lloyd D-AHLK (and probably -ATUF) are fail-op. And those are downloadable. But yeah, the greatest part (if not all) of the remaining fleet are probably still fail-pass... None other come to mind.