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anondev

Flight is not what you are hoping for

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I refer to the anonymous post at AirDailyX - http://airdailyx.blogspot.com/2011/09/microsoft-flight-not-on-hold.html

Anonymous said...It isn't on Hold but it is a year late.What caused the rumours was Microsoft recently shut out all third party developers by closing their developer scheme. Flight is now a closed platform. NO ADDONS. Also, the guy in the other thread is correct. Flight is only the Island of Hawaii. So no mainland USA or Europe etc.There are no airliners, helicopters or AI either. Its is very basic & certainly NOT a replacement for FS9/FSX. Flight still feels just like FSX/FS9 . Nothing special. It will have missions & a career path. Simple stuff for the console skillset. Not pleasing news for hardcore simmers.Best thing about it is it will be FREE for the base pack. 1 plane, 1 island.My information is from a developer who worked for Microsoft & will remain anonymous.September 15, 2011 4:26 PM Anonymous said...If that would be true the MS Flightsimulator franchise as we knew it would have completely lost its lobby within the company after Aces were fired during the financial crisis and Ballmer became CEO of MS. Sounds like a hoax.September 16, 2011 1:49 AM DOM MASON said...I am still receiving several comments suggesting that Microsoft has cut off links with third part developers.So i will continue to follow this affair seriously.Dom MasonSeptember 17, 2011 4:00 PM
I have created a temporary account here at AVSIM so I can post. It probably contravenes forum rules, but having signed an NDA with Microsoft I am not about to risk getting sued. I am a US based developer. I am under NDA with MS. They had a developer program in place, but they shut it down a few weeks ago. No explanation, no reasons, just shut down completely.All the information shown above on the AirDailyX blog is correct. Flight will be Hawaii only and there will be no third party content or addons, payware or freeware.As a developer I am furious about what MS have done, and I think this simulator is dead before it has even launched. It is definitely not going to compete with FSX, not by a long shot. They are aiming at a mass market audience who want a simple flight experience not much different to Nintendo's Pilot wings. The serious simmer here at AVSIM will laugh at what will be released. It will be a curious oddity at best.The engine is based on FSX with some added code. It still runs like crap if you tweak the cfg file to "max the sliders" (there are no in-game sliders like FSX).I hear on the developer network that they are not renewing contracts of some key staff on their team. I also heard one of their core engine developers is leaving.I am sorry that I have to hide behind a cloak of anon, but the nature of litigious large corporations means that I will not risk getting sued by MS, but I do feel the sim community deserves to hear about this deception and really bad treatment of the developers who wanted to create content for this new sim.I hope that the mods will allow this topic to remain because the community here deserves to hear the truth about this.

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Seriously what part of NDA don't you understand?If you are in fact not outright lying and you signed an NDA - you should know MS isn't going to let you in on these kinds of details - even team members are need-to-know only.So you make up your theories and share rumors you hear;and then think somehow it helps to put them online?How’s that help? You're just spreading uncertainty. You are in no position to communicate certainty.All you are doing is interfering with the natural processes of making the game.And yes the process is tumultuous....they ALL are. Hence the NDA.So you sign an NDA and then ignore it? Stupid...

"The engine is based on FSX with some added code. It still runs like crap if you tweak the cfg file to "max the sliders".
Two stupid comments - that tell me you have no useful game-dev knowledge...If they asked you I'm sure they realized their mistake. Flight is MS’s game…they will build it as they see fit.When it’s done - and not before – you’ll get to decide if it suits you.

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Hawaii has more than "1 island," so that sounds a bit specious just on first blush.We've also already seen at least four aircraft, so that's just more of a strain at credulity.With such a limited geographic area, neither "missions" nor a "career path" would make any sense at all. What I find most curious is that, while I don't know every developer, I do know all who were present at the Developer's Summit years ago (over 300). Not a single one has to my knowledge been in any way involved with "Flight." Not. One. Developer. I also am very familiar with Microsoft's NDAs, including the paragraph that absolutely prohibits anyone who's signed one to even admit that they have signed one... Yawn.gif

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I do feel the sim community deserves to hear about this deception
Regardless of whether this is true or not, if you sign an NDA and then do not abide by it, the only one doing any deceiving is you, in having agreed to not disclose anything and then going ahead and doing so. Where is the deception on Microsoft's part? If the product is not to a hard core simmer's liking, then that's disappointment, not deception. Al

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To avoid more rumors getting around, I almost feel that this thread should be locked or deleted. The stuff said was obviously not true.

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To avoid more rumors getting around, I almost feel that this thread should be locked or deleted. The stuff said was obviously not true.
Some of it is true, that I do know, at least the part about some payware developers not being happy with the way it is going. Al

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To avoid more rumors getting around, I almost feel that this thread should be locked or deleted. The stuff said was obviously not true.
hehe .... you like to call for locking of threads. However, there are dozens and dozens of other threads with stuff thats not true .. you should be hunting those down to have them locked as well. Just Kidding.gif

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hehe .... you like to call for locking of threads. However, there are dozens and dozens of other threads with stuff thats not true .. you should be hunting those down to have them locked as well. Just%20Kidding.gif
Yes, but did you even read the original post? Clearly someone who either... A. Hates the living crap out of MicrosoftB. X-Plane fanaticC. X-Plane developerD. Just wants attention I mean, come on...we've seen random speculation around here, but a whole topic created by someone stating that they are under NDA and are trying to spread false information about something that hasn't even entered beta testing....really?

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Once upon a time there were three billy goats, who were to go up to the hillside to make themselves fat, and the name of all three was "Gruff."On the way up was a bridge over a cascading stream they had to cross; and under the bridge lived a great ugly troll , with eyes as big as saucers, and a nose as long as a poker.So first of all came the youngest Billy Goat Gruff to cross the bridge."Trip, trap, trip, trap! " went the bridge."Who's that tripping over my bridge?" roared the troll . PLEASE - Don't feed the troll!

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Some of it is true, that I do know, at least the part about some payware developers not being happy with the way it is going. Al
It's folly to think 3PD's can help drive the design of Flight. It's a nice idea - it's ideal. But having built many games I can tell you it will just lead to anger. The plan must come from inside. The SDK must document how they decided to build the game. It's the only way to make a game on time and budget. Any 3PD that doesn't see that might consider how far they are willing to incoporate user-feedback during their own productions. MS can't afford to include all the features hardcore users want....and it’s more so for 3PD's.

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If Fight is just FSX with lipstick on it then how exactly would it make sense to only cover Hawaii? The world is already done if that is the case. Seems like a contradiction to me. It would explain why we've only seen pictures of Hawaii for a year though. But, if true then why spend so much time on a global weather system that dynamically blends with terrain? If it's just Hawaii it would make more sense to custom design static weather and how it reacts to the terrain, much like "Take on Helicopters" is doing or any number of other games have done with weather that changes mission to mission based on the mood the developer wants to set. If there are no Airlines then why spend so much time designing Honolulu Intl.? If it's one plane why show us four different ones? To much doesn't add up.

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Yes, but did you even read the original post? Clearly someone who either... A. Hates the living crap out of MicrosoftB. X-Plane fanaticC. X-Plane developerD. Just wants attention I mean, come on...we've seen random speculation around here, but a whole topic created by someone stating that they are under NDA and are trying to spread false information about something that hasn't even entered beta testing....really?
yep .. i understand what you are saying. But this dude feels that he has given us a news scoop .... this is his 15 minutes, let him enjoy it. Plus, the reasonable man will wait for more definitive insight on Flight.

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It's folly to think 3PD's can help drive the design of Flight. It's a nice idea - it's ideal. But having built many games I can tell you it will just lead to anger. The plan must come from inside. The SDK must document how they decided to build the game. It's the only way to make a game on time and budget.
If you're going to quote it, read it. I never said I know they are trying to influence the design, or that it would work for them to do so, merely that I know some devs are unhappy with it, nothing more than that. Al

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Chock sorry, I read your post. I'm not contradicting it...I can imagine it.I'm just saying any P3D that might work with MS will no doubt get frustrated - because ot the process.Communicating feedback - but not nessecarily seeing the results they hope.Spending time looking for bugs instead of influencing features they want.It's a bit of a community myth P3D's might "help drive the design" (of the SDK) - that's why I chose those words.I should say feedback - it's more accurate.It's just my opinion too - of course.It could work - I just think it's much more impractical than it appears.If I read a rumor devs aren't happy - I think what else new ;)

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If I read a rumor devs aren't happy - I think what else new ;)
LMAO, now that is funny - and true - but I bet you're gonna get some stick for saying it. Al

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What I find most curious is that, while I don't know every developer, I do know all who were present at the Developer's Summit years ago (over 300). Not a single one has to my knowledge been in any way involved with "Flight." Not. One. Developer.
That cant be!! Alainneedle has said over and over that "the developers are in bed with MS" on the Flight project. If the all knowing alainneedle said it it must be true, hahahaha.On a side note, I think the OP is Armenhammer or whatever the guys name is from 10 Minute Taxi fraud.

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Some of it is true, that I do know, at least the part about some payware developers not being happy with the way it is going. Al
+1 on your post, Now, to everybody else, one or two things here, the OP is pulling all of this out of his a$$ or he's telling the truth....look like he's pi$$ed...I'm just trying to put 2 & 2 together. Also, the anonymous poster said, one plane one island for the free "BASE" pack, pay attention here...."BASE PACK"....sound like "Pay as you go" does in it? The OP said, same engine with code added....I've read about that somewhere....just can't remember where right now. Told you before, FSX is not dead yet and Flight will not be business as usual like FSX was.....

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There's a third choice...he believes he’s' telling the truth. "The OP said, same engine with code added...."That describes just about every computer game...and it is a good thing.The last thing you want is to start from scratch.

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That cant be!! Alainneedle has said over and over that "the developers are in bed with MS" on the Flight project. If the all knowing alainneedle said it it must be true, hahahaha.
I'm here just to generate traffics........
There's a third choice...he believes he’s' telling the truth.
Is in it the same as pulling what he said out of his a$$?

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Me again. It seems that most of you are in some sort of denial about accepting any truth. The MS community manager's name is Husain Bengali. He is the one who sent the email to developers cancelling the program. Call Microsoft and ask for him by name, that will confirm that in fact I received the information directly from MS themselves. Of course there is one island and one aircraft for the initial version. It may even be given away in some sort of demo. Then if you want the rest of Hawaii, you will need to pay for it. Then if you want more aircraft, you will need to pay for it. If you want more missions or other goodies, you will have to pay for it. If you visit anywhere outside of Hawaii you see nothing but a blurry brown nothingness, not even any textures. But of course, if you want the rest of the world in FSX-style, you will probably have to pay for that too, but they have not even started on that. If you want airliners or your favourite aircraft from your favourite developers, you can't. They have been locked out of Flight. Same for scenery. Nada. I am sure things may change slightly by the time it launches, but check this thread back in 2012 sometime when it's released and you will say "he was right after all". As for respect and NDAs - please, give me a break! Where was MS's respect when they tossed all the developers aside?

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Me again. It seems that most of you are in some sort of denial about accepting any truth. The MS community manager's name is Husain Bengali. He is the one who sent the email to developers cancelling the program. Call Microsoft and ask for him by name, that will confirm that in fact I received the information directly from MS themselves. Of course there is one island and one aircraft for the initial version. It may even be given away in some sort of demo. Then if you want the rest of Hawaii, you will need to pay for it. Then if you want more aircraft, you will need to pay for it. If you want more missions or other goodies, you will have to pay for it. If you visit anywhere outside of Hawaii you see nothing but a blurry brown nothingness, not even any textures. But of course, if you want the rest of the world in FSX-style, you will probably have to pay for that too, but they have not even started on that. If you want airliners or your favourite aircraft from your favourite developers, you can't. They have been locked out of Flight. Same for scenery. Nada. I am sure things may change slightly by the time it launches, but check this thread back in 2012 sometime when it's released and you will say "he was right after all". As for respect and NDAs - please, give me a break! Where was MS's respect when they tossed all the developers aside?
I now believe you .... honestly.

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Anondev, separate out what MS said explicitly from your interpretations and rumor then you have something.Don't care about things you need to condition with 'may' and 'probably'Things are in flux.You say we're in denial...and you’re angry.On the team rumors are rampant too...that doesn't make them true or false.They happen in a sphere the producers control...and they release internal information accordingly. As you should know, most games are built using a vertical slice – that’s just good management.We work on just one area until completion...to be signed off.Many have supported the idea MS should ship much-much less…and focus on the engines.So Hawaii alone would suit many fine.Global scenery is largely procedurally built, which should tell you a lot too. But your blatant disregard for your NDA is shocking…What you are doing will force all software developers to think twice about communicating with anyone in the community.The game belongs to Microsoft – they get to decide.They also decide what and when information goes public - that's critical for them.You think you have some sort of responsibility to interfere?If you’re in huff deal with it…everyone accepts they will do what’s best for the franchise.If you don’t want Flight once it's done – so be it. You have other options.

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Did you guys not learn ANYTHING from the "Flight is cancelled" thread??? OMG LOL.gifLOL.gifLOL.gif
Yeah really. We're not stupid...

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