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Reflective Textures

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I would like to challange the conventional widom of all developers- that external aircraft models are rendered by reflective textures. I will offer three reasons for this. The NGX has been modelled in startling detail. It is supported by some amazing repaints, which are in sumptuous resolutions. Detail is then lost with a reflective texture blending the surface into a shine. For me the aircraft also loses some of its feeling of solidity and heavyness when polished up like this. Then there is the context. I enjoy the great detail and so by design it will not match with the ai aircraft- but for me the shiny textures just make the aircraft look out of context with all the rest of the airport scene. Not such a problem in the air though. By far the most important reason- aircraft just aren't that shiny in real life. (I may be influenced by the fact I live in Scotland and nothing shines in our weather!) Aircraft being largely painted, are quickly dulled in the blasting air. I notice my AI aircraft still have a bit of a sheen with normal textures. To me it looks much like I would expect to see in real life. I think you may be suprised how much better most liveries would look with normal textures. Especially the dark ones like Sun County. I suppose utopia would be normal textures with a few reflective wing bits for effect. Everything about this product tells me that realism was your biggest concern. For me a very shiny painted fuselage is far from reality. Discuss! By the way- congratulations on your amazing achievement with this product. Keith Harvey

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I agree that a weathered and somewhat grubby look could be offered as an alternative. Would have to talk nice to some of the talented livery painters here. lloyd jones

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By far the most important reason- aircraft just aren't that shiny in real life. (I may be influenced by the fact I live in Scotland and nothing shines in our weather!) Everything about this product tells me that realism was your biggest concern. For me a very shiny painted fuselage is far from reality.
I could show hundreds of links from airliners.net i.e where you can see a shiny, not to speak of a glossy fuselage of the aircraft.So for me this effect in no case is overdone by PMDG rather far away from it.

Regards,

Mats Weinberger

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Should have gone to "Specsavers"


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The NGX has been modelled in startling detail. It is supported by some amazing repaints, which are in sumptuous resolutions. Detail is then lost with a reflective texture blending the surface into a shine. For me the aircraft also loses some of its feeling of solidity and heavyness when polished up like this. Then there is the context. I enjoy the great detail and so by design it will not match with the ai aircraft- but for me the shiny textures just make the aircraft look out of context with all the rest of the airport scene. Not such a problem in the air though. By far the most important reason- aircraft just aren't that shiny in real life. (I may be influenced by the fact I live in Scotland and nothing shines in our weather!) Aircraft being largely painted, are quickly dulled in the blasting air. I notice my AI aircraft still have a bit of a sheen with normal textures. To me it looks much like I would expect to see in real life. I think you may be suprised how much better most liveries would look with normal textures. Especially the dark ones like Sun County. I suppose utopia would be normal textures with a few reflective wing bits for effect.
I think the aircraft in FSX do not even shine as much as they shine in real life. I wanted to bring that up during the development of NGX, but on second thought I dropped it because I think it's an FSX limitation. In real life, they shine as though they're glass, so much so, that if a sunset was reflected on the fuselage and windows, you wouldn't know which is which. American Airline livery is so shiny a mirror doesn't come close. So I don't really know where you're heading with this.

PMDG-777-EK-SIG-MAY1713-2_zps6f2ed2be.pn
 

Chidiebere Anyahara

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FAR FROM THE TRUTH!! no no no.. make 'em more shiney, I for one like to simulate that I own a private version (BBJ) and certainly I can tell you that time spent at the Signatures, Jet Aviation ramps etc., that I do, that real world BBJs and chartered 737s do look spakin' bright, shiney, and polished. I for one would like shiney engine polished chrome and tire shined wheels as I have seen in real life!! Yes, some BBJs are so clean you'd swear they just come from the factory. So, at least for the VIP repaints, make 'em even more polished.... check out some airliners.net photos to see how gourgeous some of these private NGs really are!


Peter James / Former Lead Designer Flight Unlimited III / ATP Beechjet 400A Captain

7000+ hours total flying time / Sager NP9280 notebook / i7 950 3.07 / 6 Gig / GTX280M

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I would like to challange the conventional widom of all developers- that external aircraft models are rendered by reflective textures. I will offer three reasons for this. The NGX has been modelled in startling detail. It is supported by some amazing repaints, which are in sumptuous resolutions. Detail is then lost with a reflective texture blending the surface into a shine. For me the aircraft also loses some of its feeling of solidity and heavyness when polished up like this. Then there is the context. I enjoy the great detail and so by design it will not match with the ai aircraft- but for me the shiny textures just make the aircraft look out of context with all the rest of the airport scene. Not such a problem in the air though. By far the most important reason- aircraft just aren't that shiny in real life. (I may be influenced by the fact I live in Scotland and nothing shines in our weather!) Aircraft being largely painted, are quickly dulled in the blasting air. I notice my AI aircraft still have a bit of a sheen with normal textures. To me it looks much like I would expect to see in real life. I think you may be suprised how much better most liveries would look with normal textures. Especially the dark ones like Sun County. I suppose utopia would be normal textures with a few reflective wing bits for effect. Everything about this product tells me that realism was your biggest concern. For me a very shiny painted fuselage is far from reality. Discuss! By the way- congratulations on your amazing achievement with this product. Keith Harvey
I'd say quite the contrary. I sometimes wish there would be a bit more shine and gloss on the surface.Most, if not all of the real-world NG's I've seen so far don't have a dull or peeling finish. Maybe you'll find a run down aircraft still flyin in some abandoned 3rd world place, but the airliners flying here in Europe are usually quite clean, shiny and polished. To put on top if it: I'd like to see a less worn VC, at least as an option.

Dave P. Woycek

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Thankyou for the discussion! No wonder you can't get a builder round here, they are all mixing cement for Boeings apparently!Gloss paint loses it glossy-ness when blasted by air, even happens on your window frames eventually. I would re-iterate that this is not really adressed to PMDG, as all developers use shiny textures, but I only use PMDG aircraft now. I would stand by the fact that reflective textures don't match with the rest of the scenery and that detail is lost if using them. On reflection (you see what I did there?) we are probably talking about the type of reflectiveness, rather than if they reflect. An example would be- a compeletly white, matt painted object would reflect sunlight to the point of blinding you. It doesn't mean it is glossy. In that way I quite agree with you when you say they are not shiny enough. Graphics through a computer screen can never produce that effect and you wouldn't want them to.I can't agree aircraft are like glass. Glass is glass, paint is paint and they don't reflect the same way. On reflection (see I did it again, in case you missed it the first time) the problem only seems to be with dark aircraft. I've just looked at the Copa livery, it looks amazing and I have to say it probably looks better with the reflective texture.The Sun Country (not county!) aircraft looks totally unrealistic to me with that kind of reflection- which is a shame because it's a beautiful livery- beautifully painted for us. So I stand by what I said- but stand corrected also! How liberal can you get?I do also need to go to specsavers. Let me throw in another spanner, relating to another aspect of reapaints. There is a difference to the way things look in the 'wild' and the way they look 'on paper'. I was flying out of Luton a few weeks ago and I was looking at a line of Easyjets and Wizz-airs. Let me say you are unlikely to use those colours as decoration in your homes. (unless you are young and going through an experimental period). If you used a sample of the colours from a tin (in other words and exact match) to produce an aircraft repaint- I would assert the results may NOT always be correct. As I looked at the aircraft my overriding reaction was they looked really dull and boring liveries. I also just flew 5 sectors on KLM. Should be colourful, but suprising not so in real life.Why would that be? Firstly I flew out of Edinburgh, then Amsterdam then Lima and Panama. Given that it was dark in Panama and the other cities all suffer from horribly dull weather- that is a major reason. Aircraft look totally different in different conditions, so it is unlikely they can ever look right in every scanario in FSX.Then- there is atmospheric perspective. This means any distance between the viewer and the object, reduces contrast, greys (desaturates) colours and makes the object lighter or darker, depending on the conditions (usually lighter). I would say this should be noticeable even between two aircraft on adjacent stands- but by the end of a row there would be a substantially difference in colour. FSX does perspective to some degree by mip-maps, but it doesn't desaturate the colours. People who fly out of sunny places will think the colours are right, if you fly in Northern Europe as I do, you will think the colours too saturated.In summary you will never get it for everybody, but FSX does a pretty good job in trying. One thing is for sure, I'm very greatful for all those repainters that bring so much to our hobby. Some of these liveries are incredable, I don't know how you do it. If you have read all this you really must be bored and should go out more. Happy flying Keith

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If you have read all this you really must be bored and should go out more.
Now you are telling me... rolleyes.gif

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