I currently do 3rd party work for FSX and was looking into doing work for XPX.

What I've read from your post's to date, I wouldn't support you as an XPX developer no matter how good you where, and trying a program for three hours doesn't constitute "giving it a fair chance" in my book!And MSFS finished FSX, yeah right!

Edited January 3, 201214 yr by h2egc

Your taking this a bit personal. You cant say at all that I didnt give it a good try. I spend about 3 hours OVER SKYPE WITH YOU trying to figure XPX out. If I wasent giving it a fair chance, why would I of bothered?

It was 20 minutes of figuring out why your joystick wasn't working. And considering it was an issue I never experienced, I'd say I did pretty good in figuring out what the problem was in 20 minutes. The other hour or 2 was spent showing you around x plane. Roughly 3 hours, yeah. 3 hours of my time that I could have spent working on my own projects. And you come across like this in an open forum. How nice.Let's see an FSX developer give 3 hours of one on one time to someone who is trying FSX.

I think that $400 gives you publishing rights to offer your 3rd party add-on's to LM's customers. I havent read the license, and I dont plan on doing so. I agree that for you and me, $400 is a ripoff. But when your Boeing looking for an engine for there full motion sims, its the biggest value of the centrury!

If you say so. I've seen the scenery in full motion sims. Not very detailed.

Do you really need a history lesson? P3D is Microsfot ESP. ESP was a professional level LICENSE of the FSX engine and assets. Lockheed purchased ESP when ACES closed and rebranded it P3D for distribution.http://www.spacedail...Launch_999.html

QUOTE "The Prepar3D software lets individuals and organizations conduct realistic training by engaging users in immersive environments. It can also be used for evaluating and preparing people for real world assignments and tasks."P3D is not a end-user flight sim. End of story.

Apparently, I do need a history lesson. I never went into the intricacies of FSX and it's license. I bought it, Installed it. Flew it. I wasn't interested in anything else about it.

OK. How does XP9 default stack up against FSX Gold default then? If XP10 cant, and XP9 can, then there is a problem.

For me, and many others, we prefer XP9. For you, and many others, you prefer FSX Gold. Why is it such a competition for you? It just seems you have a huge problem with people preferring X Plane over FSX. Perhaps it's your ACES dev team member side coming through. Maybe you can answer this. WHY is it so important that FSX MUST be the top level standard for everyone. For me, it simply isn't. For many others, it simply isn't. Where FSX beats X Plane in some areas, it doesn't in other areas. This is how it is. This is how it always will be. No matter how hard you want to fight the issue.

To each there own. I ask the same of you. It seems that every time I even said anything bad about XPX you were calling me on Skype defending it, even though what I said was generally true. It seems you want XP to be on top more then I wanted FSX. I dont care if FSX is on top. After 6 years it should NOT be on top. Its just a sad state if a 6 year old sim is even in the running for the top position, dont you agree? IL2 is still on top for combat flight sims, and that thing is older then DIRT. As for 3 hours not enough time, that may be true, but out of those 3 hours, I only got about 20 mins total flight time due to the buggy nature and bad UI. I was too fustrated with the UI to even give it more effort, and im not alone. Its been XPX's #1 complaint so far. I even went so far as to call GoranM on Skype so he can walk me though setting up the joystick. Even WITH his help, it still took me 20 mins. How many users do you think GoranM has time for on Skype? How many users would be willing to call someone on Skype just to get through the bad UI? I gave XPX a lot more chances then the average user, thats for sure. I tried, I really really did, but there is only so much time I can put into something before I need to move on. Goram. Do you honestly think that im biast after talking with you for so long? I even said many many times over that XPX was one of the first time I felt like I was really flying an aircraft. I have the utmost respect for the FM and what Austin has done. I have never once said anything bad about the simulation portion of XPX. My biggest problem is what the simulation is wrapped in.

Who walked away in disgust ? Do you have one example ?

There was a French guy who did some object utlities in v5; an Italian guy who did some amazing Italian photoscenery in v6, a Korean guy who developed a 3dsMax utility for object conversion from 3dsMax to X-plane v6 or v7(?), along with a bunch of guys who I WILL NOT NAME - to protect them and myself from any embarrasment. It just wouldn't be fair.Take this French guy's utility, for example. Someone at v5 developed the Empire State Building (ESB) and offered it publicly for free downloads, saying excitedly and proudly that it took him a year to do the entire object. Keep in mind, there were no object, texture tools whatsoever except for this French guy's utility, which, I believe came later. Then in v6 the formats changed and the year's work of ESB went down the drain, ALONG WITH ALL OBJECTS MADE IN v5 format. Needless to say, the object utlity became useless ! Thanks to the brilliance of the illustrious head at Laminar.If you are serious or if you have been around you would know, AND IT IS PROBABLY NOT THAT HARD TO KNOW OR FIND OUT, IF YOU DIG DEEP ENOUGH. Like I said that path is littered with some self-less dedicated people who made some amazing contributions, mostly freely and gave up because of the format changes, lack of tools and utilities and/or the attitudes behaviour and practices of Laminar.I am sure one can argue that that was in the past but there have been VERY RECENT examples - of people who have just walked away, dropped, slowed or halted development - for lack of recognition, acknowledgement or any kind of reward for their countless hours of unpaid toil, just to see their efforts go to waste.Laminar, like I said before, reserves the right to do anything they want with their program without feeling ABSOLUTELY NO OBLIGATION OR OWING NO EXPLANATION TO ANYONE. When you are EXPECTING TO INVOLVE USERS AND 3RD PARTIES to use your platform, you have to do certain things to embrace their efforts or guide them. That lesson has not sunk in at Laminar to any significant depth.But sad to say, even today, their atttude towards freeware and payware is "you can do anything you want" but they continue to reserve the right to do what they want, NO MATTER HOW IT MAY AFFECT 3RD PARTY DEVELOPMENT.HARDLY A GOOD ENVIRONMENT FOR CO-OPERATIVE DEVELOPMENT OR MOVEMENT FORWARD.

Edited January 3, 201214 yr by m_av

To each there own. I ask the same of you. It seems that every time I even said anything bad about XPX you were calling me on Skype defending it, even though what I said was generally true.

KevinI NEVER called you defending X Plane. I messaged you recently and asked what was going on with your statements in the Flight forum. "Comical" x plane scenery. "Laughable" x plane scenery. Complete turnaround from the intelligent discussions we normally had. And you told me "Don't go into the Flight forums". If you want to lie about it, then we'll air it for everyone. If you want to take it private, which is what I would prefer, then please, by all means.

It seems you want XP to be on top more then I wanted FSX. I dont care if FSX is on top. After 6 years it should NOT be on top. Its just a sad state if a 6 year old sim is even in the running for the top position, dont you agree? IL2 is still on top for combat flight sims, and that thing is older then DIRT.

Tell that to Phil Taylor

As for 3 hours not enough time, that may be true, but out of those 3 hours, I only got about 20 mins total flight time due to the buggy nature and bad UI. I was too fustrated with the UI to even give it more effort, and im not alone. Its been XPX's #1 complaint so far. I even went so far as to call GoranM on Skype so he can walk me though setting up the joystick. Even WITH his help, it still took me 20 mins. How many users do you think GoranM has time for on Skype? How many users would be willing to call someone on Skype just to get through the bad UI? I gave XPX a lot more chances then the average user, thats for sure. I tried, I really really did, but there is only so much time I can put into something before I need to move on.

I actually helped a lot more people than you think. You might be surprised. How many needed help with the UI? Zero. You were the only one. Everything else was straightforward menu stuff. The big difference is those people were very grateful and have stopped posting exaggerated negative comments about x plane. Yes, you were thankful. But your negative comments continued.

Goram. Do you honestly think that im biast after talking with you for so long? I even said many many times over that XPX was one of the first time I felt like I was really flying an aircraft. I have the utmost respect for the FM and what Austin has done. I have never once said anything bad about the simulation portion of XPX. My biggest problem is what the simulation is wrapped in.

I don't know. ARE you biased. From your posts in the Flight forums, I would say yes. From your discussions with me, I would say no.Forgive me for saying so, but going by your Flight forum posts, it just seems you want your ego stroked by other people who have no interest in x plane. Blunt, I know. But I prefer not to beat around the bush. You could have decided not to post anything if you were not biased. Seeing as you have a history of taking part in FSX development, I'd say you would have at least a small amount of bias towards FSX in you.

In order to improve, you must know your faults. If calling out faults is bad and looked down appon in XP, you cant improve. FSX was never perfect. I hate its FM and scripted stalls. Its flight is just too predictable. For all its faults, it was a complete package when released, and many faults were fixed with the SP's. XP seems unfinished, and I really want it to get finished since I really liked the FM! I think the FM is at a point to were LM can focus on other things like scenery, GFX and UI for a few years and still be in front of the FM race. The product needs more balance, thats all im saying.

Then quit the "comical" and "laughable" adjectives. Laminar HAVE focused on other things. Weather. Terrain LOD. ATC. AI. HDR. Lighting. Andreas and Tom Kyler have mentioned that scenery will be worked on in the near future. Other issues have priority. Code optimization mainly. Graphics card glitches. No sim will EVER be complete.

WHAT in the world is so complicated about the UI? Seems to be straight forward and simple to me, or am I missing something. Is everyone that is so flumexed over the UI, (and I have seen more than one gripe about it),dense? Perhaps it is my lack of understanding about what is being talked about as I can't imagine anyone with a fourth grade education being perplexed over the UI in X-Plane. Now I know or am reasonably sure these individuals, that are complaining are not intellectually challenged, so what IS up?

In order to improve, you must know your faults. If calling out faults is bad and looked down appon in XP, you cant improve. FSX was never perfect. Its flight is just too predictable.

Flight SHOULD be predictable. That's why we test these things.. :(

@Donald,XPX UI = NOT FSX UI = Very, Very Complicated for SOME! :(

ITs not just me. Reading most of the user reviews in this forum shows the UI is at the top of the "dont like" list.

Edited January 4, 201214 yr by MVGibbage

"LaughOutLoud", I did mean X-Plane. For Pete's sake, punch a button, click a radio button, or wiggle a control, click what you want that axis to do, good grief.And I see you don't have a sarcasm bone either. :(

Oh christ. Yes, he lied. He didn't speak to every single x plane user out there, all several hundred thousand of them.Some things are said "in jest".

The one question I really like is, "My radios don't work"!OOPS, no auto-tuning!

The one question I really like is, "My radios don't work"!OOPS, no auto-tuning!

But.....................even my homebuilt RV6 has "auto tuning". Seriously! It's pulled into the Comm from the GPS.