m_av

Today, X-plane v10 DOES NOT HAVE A SINGLE BUILDING THAT IS IN THE CORRECT LOCATION AND LOOKS ANYTHING LIKE THE REAL WORLD BUILDING, except perhaps for the few landmarks like the Seattle Needle, Eifel Tower, etc.Not intentionally ! NOT ONE !I do not normally like to compare FSX, which is some half a dozen years old vs X-plane v10, barely two months old, more a premature baby than anything else !

Deliver the product that was hyped and promised - relatively BUG-FREE AND COMPLETE.$crew the updates ! Just deliver the product - TODAY, NOT TWO OR SIX MONTHS FROM NOW. TODAY !The customers lived up to their end of the bargain AND PAID IN FULL - NOT TWO OR SIX MONTHS FROM NOW.When will Laminar live upto it's end of the bargain ?OR ATLEAST, give customers the option of getting a FULL REFUND, INCLUDING SHIPPING CHARGES AND TAXES AS APPLICABLE.This problem was ENTIRELY Laminar's creation. They should bear COMPLETE responsiblity to fully address it and fix it as necessary - ASAP !

fly_like_an_eagle : Can't agree with you more.After 10 versions over a two decade span of X-plane's Blade Element Theory based flight model, one would think that Laminar would have a pretty good handle on the flight model and can come up with JUST ONE OR TWO AIRCRAFT that be the showcase aircraft just as LOWI was to scenery in v8/v9 !Can Laminar do that in X-plane v10 ?I am sure that's a tall order for Laminar since they can't even deliver what they hyped and promised, let alone delivering more than promised !Don't blame the users' for Laminar's shortcomings. Laminar should face upto them and take full responsibility for the inadequacy and premature release of X-plane v10 as it exists today AND FOR THE FORSEEABLE FUTURE !

Constructive criticism, like beauty, is in the eyes of the beholder. Where you stand depends on where you sit. You asked me and I obliged, I thought quite lucidly.Now, you find my reply/explanation not "constuctive". Which is it ? Not "constructive" or unclear ? Did you read/understand the example I gave in my post ? What is it in my post that you do not understand now ?I used the word "remove" in my original post and YOU CHOSE to replace it with your own word, "modify".Yet, you do not understand. Or is it that YOU CHOSE NOT TO UNDERSTAND ?

I fail to understand why you don't understand what I posted, hence the two quotes above. Note the word "remove" in my post as opposed to the word "modify" in your post. Be that as it may, let me just illustrate it with something specific and exagerate a bit to make my point clearer.If the "autopilot" feature was completely removed ( or broken ) in an update when it was was working fine in a previous update/version, will that be acceptable to you as a user, assuming you understood the feature, were able to use the feature successfully, as intended and appreciated it in prior update/version?We can go into different reasons why the "autopilot" may be removed, but the fact that it was removed from lthe latest and future updates will be acceptable to you ? Where should the line on compatibility be drawn ? Or does that not qualify as a compatibility issue ?

Let's start by saying :1. May be somethings need to be set in stone.2. Don't fix something that wasn't broken !3. An update implies "New, Improved, or BOTH "NEW AND IMPROVED".4. Give me a BUG-FREE, COMPLETE PRODUCT and $crew the updates if you are going to hide behind your incapability to fix or improve something.5. Don't remove a feature or two just because Laminar is not too thrilled with it. Even if Laminar offers these updates for free, IT DOES NOT GIVE LAMINAR the right to remove something that some or many users may be using or find useful.The buggy incomplete product in X-plane v10 is not the users' fault. IT IS VERY DEFINETLY LAMINAR'S FAULT AND RESPONSIBILITY. Laminar takes advantage of it's very forgiving base. It should take these issues HEAD ON and address them publicly instead of hiding behind their blogs, over which they exert complete control.Is that too much to ask, Laminar ?

Sony Betamax was a COMPLETE, BUGFREE PRODUCT THAT JUST WORKED, AS INTENDED, OUT OF THE BOX. No if's, and's or but's. It worked the day you plugged it in. Not a month, two months or six months from now ! It came with a warranty, too ! Also, are you suggesting that Laminar is anywhere close to Sony. ARE YOU SERIOUS ?I write about Laminar, Austin and X-plane, the product because I know A BIT about all of them thru personal experience and after a decade of the attitude, behaviour and actions of Laminar and it's head, I have a right to have the opinion I have. I share that opinion, FWIW. You don't have to read it, agree with it, pay attention to it or respond to it. NO CHARGE !The problem with X-plane v10 IS NOT CAUSED BY ME, YOU OR THE CUSTOMERS WHO BOUGHT IT.It is very clearly Laminar's creation ( and it is a pattern that repeats with EVERY VERSION ) and the least Laminar and Austin could do is to own up to the problem, inadequacy, etc. and address the problems and issues at hand.WHEN WILL LAMINAR DO THAT ?

The more one delays the purchase of a buggy and incomplete product, the more incentive Laminar has to produce an update that is worthy of being called a complete, finished, relatively bug-free product that Laminar IMPLIES.Laminar should deliver more than it promises and promise less than what it can deliver - TODAY - not a month, two months or six months from now !TODAY.WHAT IS LAMINAR'S ROADMAP AND TIMELINE FOR FIXING AND DELIVERING THE PRODUCT IT HYPED AND PROMISED ?

Link ?

I wouldn't go that far and I am being polite here.Addons have been broken or reduced in some features unrecognised or some features "dulled" or e.g. airport lighting highlited/brightened so much so that they look like they were lit like petroleum refneries, etc.What I have listed above is from PERSONAL EXPERIENCE AND OBSERVATIONS. Again, you may chose to believe me or not, but it is a fact based on my personal experience. I have known 3rd party developers remain silent, grin and bear it or try to be as gentle as possible in asking Austin to make the necessary correction.This is where I say, again, the word "compatibility" is used somewhat losely. If compatibilty means X-plane didn't CTD because of the particular entity, THAT'S A PRETTY LOW BAR. To me compatibilty means the particular entity will work in the new X-plane update or version just as well as it it did in ta previous update or version, as the case maybe, WITHOUT ANY MODIFICATIONS. One might say THAT'S A PRETTY HIGH BAR. But, that's me. :(

+1You said it, jahman, and you can't be more clear. Just hope the Europeans understand English !

Should be possible.But I'd rather have them take a much bolder approach - get together with ORBX, etc. and create a new sim platform ! Probably, much easier said than done, I know.

Concentrate on the message, NOT THE MESSENGER !Refute / challenge what I have posted, BY ALL MEANS -AND STOP THERE !!!!!

WOW ! Forgive me, alpilotx, no offence meant to you.I just wish that Laminar / Austin had the courage and was bold and upfront enough to say this PUBLICLY !This is why it is extremely important for Laminar to explain the "Roadmap and the Timeline for X-plane v10" to it's users, WHO PAID THE FULL PRICE, UPFRONT WITH NO IF'S, AND'S or BUT'S.

NOT QUITE, NOT EVEN CLOSE ! Let's stay focused on the issue, shall we ?What remains is the hundreds or perhaps thousands of customers with an as yet buggy and incomplete product that Laminar in it's infinite wisdom decided to release prematurely and sell, AT FULL PRICE, NO LESS, with no hint /admission upfront, that IT IS AN INCOMPLETE, BUGGY, BETA PRODUCT.

This isn't about you or me.At the very least, Laminar owes it's customers an explanation and a reasonable timeline on when they expect to correct the problems THEY CREATED.Let's be perfectly clear; let's give credit where it's due. This isn't the customers' fault - IT IS CLEARLY LAMINAR'S !

Download the freebie and keep your wallet safe and fat.Enjoy the freebie !

+1 I want X-plane to LIVE UPTO IT'S HYPE - AND, HOPEFULLY, ACHIEVE A GOO PORTION OF IT'S POTENTIAL.

Ask me if I care what you think ! The ISSUE is not you or me. It's the product, the company, it's head and their management of of the ISSUE.Where is the Roadmap and Associated Timeline for X-plane v10 ? If, as you say, Laminar is working on that, HAVE THEY MADE ANY PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENT OR SENT EMAILS TO THE CURRENT CLIENTELE ?Laminar should atleast have the decency to admit their product's inadequacy / shortcomings and tell it's clientele what the current situation is on a weekly bases, if not daily, including when the issues will be addressed, IN FULL !SPECIFICS - ADDRESSED BY A LAMINAR DESIGNATED SPOKESMAN - NOT "we're working on it" and/or then hide behind the updates saying it will / may be addressed in a future beta/update. No loose, unclear or fuzzy talk - SPECIFICS !When the issues identified have been adequately addressed, they should also make a public statement that this is how the product should have been released in the first place and offer a public apology for putting unsuspecting users thru the pain of beta testing. In a normal software offering it would be called a fiasco, gross mis-management and mis-handling. For Laminar, it's business as usual and we, the users, give them a pass because it's a much smaller outfit !One would expect AT THE VERY LEAST, that X-plane v10 would match X-plane v9 in scope, detail and according to their own admission, to an extent, performance, if not exceed v9 in all respects.Is that true today ? The answer is a clear and definite NO !

PMDG needs to develop it's own flight model and/or marry the flight gear flight model with something like Outerra.So does ORBX.ORPMDG + ORBX, now there's a thought !It's really quite clear and simple. M$ has in no mistakable terms made it clear that 3rd parties are out - unless they play ball with Microsoft.Here's a chance for TPD's to band together and do something about it.

Fixing something that ain't broke.Laminar did that ?Nah !

The issue should be, will be and MUST BE X-plane v10, the product primarily, as the OP title suggests. Because of the product or lack of a complete, finished, bug-free product, the issue also involves Laminar, it's head, as well as their past and present attitudes, behaviour and practices, which do leave something to be desired.The issue is still and MUST REMAIN : What is Laminar's ROADMAP AND TIMELINE for X-plane v10 ?In the absence of a complete, finished, bug-free, stable product todate, IT IS THE LEAST LAMINAR OWES IT'S PRESENT AND FUTURE / POTENTIAL USER BASE.

I think it's a lot more complicated than that.Does M$ deseve a cent for anything written in/or using Word - any book, any movie script, any research whether in science, medicine or anything else ? Where should the line be drawn, IF AT ALL ?Does Garmin owe anything to the Auto companies, if they create an auto-based navigation system customized to use on any given car model, Ford, GM, Chrysler, Honda, Toyota, etc.Does an Architect owe anything to the CAD software company for city planning or designing buildings and structures developed on the CAD software ?Consumers have the power - they can just walk by and ignore the greed !

Perhaps true. I am not experienced enough to speak about the intricacies of flight models and how they are applied in each sim's case, but wouldn't the easiest thing to do would be to re-create/adapt the "look table" approach from MSFS thru X-plane's plugin option, where I heard people say, FWIW, that X-plane's entire flight model can be replaced with one's own, if one so choses ?My 2 cents - somewhat inflated no doubt.

Who wouldn't when it's free ?