Some thoughts on Flight...

[windshearDK 52]

So when Flytampa finds outerra interesting, it means less than when ORBX finds it uninteresting??I did not understand RR's post as saying that PMDG is going for Xplane, on the contrary I understood him as saying, that it looks good, but still does not represent a solid FSX replacement.

[Kosta 122]

With all respect, all together, Flytampa, ORBX, PMDG, Aerosoft and others have not nearly as same experience as ACES have when comes to creating Flight Simulator world. They've said it alltogether. It would take much bigger undertaking, with possibly a better result, but you never really know, and it would cost so much that it wouldn't be profitable, because you wouldn't pay 500€ for a simulator.X-Plane is developing. And doing that fast. It's, beside P3D, the only really viable solution. P3D is commercial - do you want to pay 500€ for the P3D licence and then much much more than 100€ for PMDG NGX to use it in the "commercial simulator"?Look, I'm not against anything, just repeating what's been said in hundreds, possibly thousands of threads accross different forums and threads. And right now, everyone is majorly excited, annoyed, disappointed etc - in couple of months, maybe even days, things are gonna calm down, we are gonna forget about the whole thing and go on with enjoying FSX. For now.

[Jude Bradley 659]

I'm disapointed with Microsoft's decision,but Word Not Allowed has spoken a lot of sense here.

[Richard99_Photography 2]

Well it's also 10 bucks a month... the same price than a magazine or a junk food burger and it's twice cheaper than angle of attack aviator pro video subscription...Expensive, I don't think so. :( Benjamin

You are right, only 10 US Dollars per month, not a great amount, if we consider one month or one year as well. But, let me do a briefly count: my flight simulation experience is about 3 years old (36 months) and it might continue for many years in the future. Anyway, with a monthly subscription of Prepar3d I would have spent roughly 360 US Dollars in three years... For me it is a quite huge amount, thinking that I bought an used copy of FSX for only 20 US dollars or less.No, looking for a new and cheaper license price by Prepar3d developers. Bye.

[rsrandazzo 6,353]

Oops I should have signed my posts sorry 'bout that.Sort of narrows the direction down a bit unless MS decides to change its present stance...Robert Thomason

Robert-You were specifically the person I was referencing when I said I was sorry to whack a bunch of insightful posts. Sorry...Paul and Ryan do a good job of making sure we look after our military folks at tech support- so I hated to pick on your posts.On the topic of narrowing down the options: We are going to continue forward exploring our options with Xplane10, and I am going to connect with the fellow from LM/P3D sometime this week (I hope) and we will see what comes of the conversation.One thing I learned while working in the airline business was to just keep an eye on the objective. Things have a way of sorting themselves out one way or another!

[rsrandazzo 6,353]

Tad-

<lots removed>Thank you for some great products and your great technical support. I hope someone else with your standards will be up to picking up what you have laid down for Prepar3D.

I think you have lept off a cliff with my comment... So I hope you thought to strap on a chute before going. :Nerd:PMDG is a business- and as such we need to support the platform that is used by our current AND FUTURE customers. To get those future customers onboard- we need a platform that is readily marketed to aviation enthusiasts and not just corporations.I said quite clearly that if licensed only for commercial operators, P3D will not be the platform upon which our future **consumer** (emphasis added to keep you away from that cliff) products are based.You will note that I did not say: "We will not develop on the P3D platform."There is some subtlety there that I am not in a position to go into- but I hope you can see the difference!

[ZachLW 37]

P3D is commercial - do you want to pay 500€ for the P3D licence and then much much more than 100€ for PMDG NGX to use it in the "commercial simulator"?

I have seen mentioned before that P3D, or rather LM, is investigating new licensing options with much more appropriate prices. If or when that happens, you can bet I will purchase P3D if only to supprt further development.Either way, I'm quite happy with FSX now, and will be atleast until I go to the big league and have no more time to sim... FSX looks to be the "Windows XP" for flight simmers. Edited January 10, 2012 by ZachLW

[rsrandazzo 6,353]

Jason-

It's all quite depressing, I must say. Perhaps it's time for me to start winding down this hobby.

Nah- I couldn't disagree with you more. Just because the weather forecast calls for cloudy with a chance of rain doesn't mean you should cancel the trip to the beach.We have a ton of stuff in store for the next few years. Remember- at PMDG we have known this was coming for a great while- and we have been putting quite a bit of time into planning a strategy ahead. Most of the rest of the simming world is just now playing catch-up with the news- but over time we will all migrate onto a platform that works...

[rsrandazzo 6,353]

I don't want things to get testy...but I think it's worth explaining.<lots and lots removed>So for the P3D users out there, it's best you keep your request for complete PMDG support within P3D at a dull roar...or you risk losing the ability to get any kind of PMDG functionality within P3D. As it stands at the moment, the PMDG EULA and P3D EULA simply don't jive, and it could be construed as a EULA violation to use a PMDG product within P3D.

Let me jump in here and be clear that we are not going to go after consumer users who decide to run the NGX in P3D... Just so long as you abide by our EULA restricting you to private use unrelated to maintaining currency or training, you'll be fine...This isn't something we are overly concerned about.That being said- we are not supporting the NGX on P3D... So if you run into something that does work properly in P3D but works in FSX- we aren't going to invest the time to fix for you... From what we've seen this isn't an issue at this time.

I will end this though with a statement: I am no way a legal expert, and can't speak for PMDG of course. All the above is just what I have gleamed from all the discussions/my own experience.

You may not be an expert- but you seem to have a grasp on roughly some of the EULA related challenges. So if you don't mind- I'm going to have you sit in with the lawyers during their next briefing for me on the subject. And when they hand you the $5,000 invoice on the way out the door- just... uhm... pay it... and we'll call it even. :((Not a fan of the legal profession in general... I mean- where else do you get to pay by the hour for other people to give you advice on a topic that becomes increasingly more complicated based on the size of their mortgage and/or boat payment?)

Call me cynical but I think PMDG does not want to develop for P3D because all existing products will work in that program, there is no money in it, at least short term.

Mark-I'm officially adding you to the cynical list. :(

[MM7 42]

I see this thread is going well :) Just like to remind Oliver Donner that he signed a NDA so he mustn't comment on the Flight, I have also become a NDA so am just watching out for you mate :) to PMDG : will continue to support you and FSX as I don't see myself changing from FSX anytime soon :)

[windshearDK 52]

So it does sounds like PMDG finds Xplane the most likely candidate. Maybe they will port to P3D... Sounds reasonable. Porting from FSX should not be impossible, that would ease up some hands for the porting work into Xplane10...Xplane 10 does have some nice graphics I must say, but how about physics? and ATC? Anyone have experience with Xplane?Features I find interesting is:

• Super accurate flight characteristics using a virtual wind tunnel
• New rendering engine with innovative global lighting system (first for flight simulation)
• Totally flexible and extendable with thousands of existing add-ons (and many more to come)

Does this mean that the physics in this simulator are much better than FSIn what sense will Xplane be compatible with existing add-ons? It seems that Aerosoft has some airports that will be compatible.Any thoughts or insights?

Edited January 10, 2012 by windshearDK

[GoranM 3,779]

In what sense will Xplane be compatible with existing add-ons? It seems that Aerosoft has some airports that will be compatible.Any thoughts or insights?

The only things that can be exported over to X Plane are the 3D meshes. And that's only through 3 different 3D applications. That's it.FSX add ons converted to x plane will need to be re-textured, re-programmed and re-animated and the flight model will have to be done...all from scratch.

[Guest]

So it does sounds like PMDG finds Xplane the most likely candidate. Maybe they will port to P3D... Sounds reasonable. Porting from FSX should not be impossible, that would ease up some hands for the porting work into Xplane10...Xplane 10 does have some nice graphics I must say, but how about physics? and ATC? Anyone have experience with Xplane?Features I find interesting is:

• Super accurate flight characteristics using a virtual wind tunnel
• New rendering engine with innovative global lighting system (first for flight simulation)
• Totally flexible and extendable with thousands of existing add-ons (and many more to come)

Does this mean that the physics in this simulator are much better than FSIn what sense will Xplane be compatible with existing add-ons? It seems that Aerosoft has some airports that will be compatible.Any thoughts or insights?

Porting to P3D is hardly necessary because 99% of FSX addons work in P3D. Well, in the current version of P3D. In that regard I am very happy to see PMDG doesn't mind (unlike some other devs) if you use their products in P3D! Obviously they won't support it, but that's not a real problem.This all may change when version 2.0 is being released. LM said they will try to keep things compatible but they won't hold back the development just to keep FSX addons compatible. That's not their focus. So it is to be seen if P3D will STAY interesting for FSX users.About XPlane and nice graphics: I still have to see screenshots that make me go WOW... Everything I have seen so far doesn't impress me at all... It all looks so dull and lifeless: there seems to be even less sun in Xplane then there is in FSX...

[Kosta 122]

See, it happened without asking :biggrin:I hardly doubt that compatibility can be kept for a long time if development is to go on - see what happens if you turn on DX10 mode in FSX, it all goes bananas with many addons. And they are doing DX11...X-Plane also doesn't impress me visually. Very dark and very dull. World ain't like that, not what I've seen from aircraft...But, they also said addons work under XP10 differently than under FSX - not using CPU as in FSX, but they have their own working space or whatever, which sounds like a good platform for future use. Like, FPS should stay high if they are high without addons. Well, let's see it.

[themose 11]

I tried X-plane 10 out a while back and while in its current state didnt blow me away, I would like to think it has nice potential.It needs Laminar to iron out teething problems under the hood which no doubt they are getting on with and the rest will followAlso as Word Not Allowed says, the World does seem dull, but surley once the REX boys get their stuff going for XPX and ground scenery artists start weaving their magic then a year or two down the line we could be onto a real nice platform.