Some thoughts on Flight...

[pilota 0]

I have always been an optimist keeping an eye for Opportunities and those that I have been able to manage have given me great returns on investment. I have the feeling that MS FLIGHT is a door of opportunity to the add on producers for FSX and other incoming platforms. Since MS took the Game route and has willingly forgotten the Sim Community time has arrived to RE-Enforce development and Production of Addons of all types.......like someone said " You cannot miss what you have never had!!"..so lets jump into this "Opportunity" window to broaden our products for FSX, both Payware and Freeware....MS, I firmly feel will fail in this attempt for a Flight Game cannot in any way whatsoever get the sales that a Need for Speed, Dirt, Dirt2, and so many ACTION games are out there for kids. My grandson loves those and even the latest Railworks is a must for him, when I load up FSX he sits with me and has even learned to fly the Cessna 172, but after one or two flights he leaves and goes play something else. He likes ACTION!!! which is in most kid's nature but flying a civilian plane from airport to airport is not such a great deal specially if his blood is not injected with aircraft fuel....picking up tokens and flying under fire hoops will eventually just be placed in the back of the files. My prediction is that MS after a year or two of failure in this endeavor will just simply let it fade away as they have done with so many of their infamous games....they have indeed with this attitude of disdain to a community that backed them up for decades actually lost the touch of Flight and lost millions of enthusiasts who would always be on their side.....Empires have done that trough History.Gera Godoy Canova

Edited January 7, 2012 by pilota

[GHarrall 494]

I've never accused them of lying.But consider the sources. Lockheed Martin, who has a vested interest in Prepar3D, is saying, "We technically have a commercial license, but hey, we're not actually going to prevent consumers from giving us money. *wink*" Also, they're a commercial enterprise and have never catered to the consumer market.On the other hand you have a well-respected third-party developer who is more in tune with the consumer market and with no vested interest in Prepar3D one way or the other reiterating the fact that Prepar3D is not and likely never will be a consumer product and that its future viability as such is questionable at best.

There is no "wink"............its plain for all to READ......the statement is right there "P3D is for ANYONE" (who wants to pay for it)As for PMDG....they must be doing something wrong!Orbx, FSDT, FSUIPC, REX, Aerosoft have all had no problems getting cross platform deals / installers.These addon devs clearly see P3D as a possible consumer product.Are these addon devs 'decieving' us as well then? Or is only PMDG's opinion worthwhile according to you because it fits your agenda? Edited January 7, 2012 by GHarrall

[EagleSkinner 36]

Not being a "heavy" flier, I am not a PMDG customer - although I am sorely tempted to get the B1900 one day. However, Mr. Randazzo's opening statement surely speaks from the heart of any third party developer or (as is my case) painter. Thanks very much for your candour.And now I must go find out about Aerofly FS and P3D - two very new but exciting terms that I have missed, because I have been out of the loop, recovering from wrist injuries.

[Houghton11 12]

All this bickering about P3D aside...It's just too bloody expensive. Simple as that. $120 bucks a year to sim in addition to the occasional addons...which I won't be able to use anyways if I stop paying the 10 bucks? (That's how it works right?)...Na...I don't see how that's any different from the money-gouge Flight! may ending up being. At least MS keeps the weather servers for FSX running for us...What happens when L/M sells the ESP license or it goes belly-up? - Microsoft must have gotten rid of it for a reason...Their license with MS obviously will prohibit them from developing a entertainment/consumer license. That's what FSX is, X-Plane, Aerofly thinger...etc. FS wouldn't be producing Flight! if the opposite was true.And just to be clear, I don't have WoW or any of those other subscription based games. I do have Xbox live though, and I find it a little more reasonable at around 35-50 bucks a year (depending on where one finds good deals on subscription cards).I posted a post regarding EULA and stuff regarding PMDG products in PMDG some time back:

Posted 27 October 2011 - 03:51 PMI don't think you'll see any "official support" from PMDG regarding P3D.The PMDG EULA:

b. You may use the Software for private entertainment purposes only, and may notuse this software to conduct training, aircraft familiarization or other trainingscenarios without acquiring a commercial support license from PMDG in advance....e. You shall not charge non-licensed or licensed owners of this software for useof this software, training in conjunction with this software, or while using thissoftware to demonstrate any technique or process that may be considered training orfamiliarization.

Basically, P3D is a commerical subscription/license based platform that allows one to profit from the use/development of it. That's why it's explicitly not being marketed for a personal-use license (at least now). I don't have a copy of the P3D EULA though so I can't confirm.I assume Ben you have a development license correct? That license allows you to develop within the P3D environment with the assumption that at some stage, you will seek remuneration/reward for said development within that P3D platform. Using the NGX in a simulator with that type of license may be construed as a violation of the PMDG EULA - which is for private, not for profit entertainment.Not to mention the liability issues surround using an addon like this in some commercially operated simulator (for training purposes)...if it was being used in one.This is unless PMDG developed another commercial license option for the NGX...which once again...would bring huge liability issues up...even if prospective Co-Jo's were using it just to practice sim rides...expect big $$$$ for a NGX commercial license to cover liability insurance (like everything in aviation).It's not that big of a deal for something like Orbx to support and develop a separate commerical license. Scenery doesn't have much to do with how the aircraft/whatever you're simulating is behaving...which is what these commercial simulators are about.Basically the PMDG's and Lockheed Martin's P3D EULA's don't really jive.But be happy. It works okay on P3D correct?

Edited January 7, 2012 by Houghton11

[steve howlett 137]

HiNot sure if this has been mentioned.isn't Aerosoft developing it's own Flightsim.seem to remember Mathijs Kok saying that it's in the planning stage.this was some time ago.so not sure if it's been shelved or still ongoing.with the current unfavourable news,i'd be interested to hear if there's been any progress.steve-0

[gweilo8888 1]

 

Straight from the horses mouth at LM - John Nicol is the lead dev of P3D:"Just to be clear (and trying not to sound defensive!). Anyone can purchase Prepar3D. We do not sell it as an entertainment product and the EULA talks about that, which means that it will not be appearing on the shelves of Best Buy next to Call of Duty any time soon..... I am not sure where the rumour started that we sell only to certain people, but anyone can buy it."

Yes, I've seen that. I've also read the EULA, and it directly and in no uncertain terms contradicts him. He can say it's open to the public until he's blue in the face, but until the EULA is changed, it means nothing.Exact quotes from the EULA with bold by me for emphasis):"YOU ARE AGREEING TO BE BOUND BY THE TERMS OF THIS AGREEMENT. IF YOU DO NOT AGREE TO THE TERMS OF THIS AGREEMENT, PLEASE DISCONTINUE USAGE."" License Grant. Subject to the terms and conditions of this EULA, Licensor hereby grants Licensee a fully paid-up, nontransferable, nonsublicensable, nonexclusive license during the Term of this EULA to use the Software, but only on no more than one computer at any one time, only by no more than one user at any one time, and only for purposes other than personal/consumer entertainment."This is what I referred to as "turning a blind eye" to consumer use. If consumer use was really allowed, it would not be expressly prohibited in the very first clause of the EULA.Edit: Don't believe me? Read the EULA yourself: http://www.prepar3d.com/support/end-user-license-agreement-eula/

 

Edited January 7, 2012 by gweilo8888

[Mean Aerodynamic Chord 269]

Alright that's it.Everyone sign this: http://www.change.org/petitions/microsoft-game-studiosmicrosoft-corportation-bring-back-microsoft-flight-simulator-seriesreopen-aces-studiosfsx-sp3Let's get ACES Studios open again!

[Houghton11 12]

He he Diego you may have a point there...Where did the ACES team go? Surely some of them may be working with Flight!...but it'd be interesting to see their opinion on this whole simming-kerfuffle.

[Mean Aerodynamic Chord 269]

 

He he Diego you may have a point there...Where did the ACES team go? Surely some of them may be working with Flight!...but it'd be interesting to see their opinion on this whole simming-kerfuffle.

Just sign it. If you don't want to create an account, just log in with Facebook or Twitter I think.http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2339520,00.asp

 

[Guest jahman]

Thanks RJR for two very informative posts!All we can now hope for is for Flight to flop and MS to modify their businees plan to include current FSX developpers like yourselves and to cater to the traditional flight simming community.Perhaps MS will come to their senses and realize they could make the money their development effort requires by selling an arcade Flight for the masses and a serious sim like FSX at the same time, as they would share the same core aerodynamcis and scenery engines.Also MS could sell a serious sim as an annual subscription via a yearly version cycle with bug fixes and FPS improvements. We would all be happy to $50 per year for this privilege.In the meantime I have forwarded the funds necessary to purchase your PMDG B-777-200ER (when released) for safekeeping to a very secret, very private Swiss Bank with a secure vault at the end of a tunnel below Switzerland's tallest mountain.Cheers,- jahman.

Edited January 7, 2012 by jahman

[Lemond23 0]

MS interest is not realism or precision, but income. So I'm quite glad that PMDG is quitting with MS future products. Lets get more serious.Teo Halfen

[Guest]

If only MS had 1% of the PMDG vision of the businesses and communities MS would be respected by many of us but that's not the truth.The only fact the MS and LM didn't answered to PMDG mails is a clear sign of how much ill mannered are those folks.PMDG, you can count on us.

[GHarrall 494]

Yes, I've seen that. I've also read the EULA, and it directly and in no uncertain terms contradicts him. He can say it's open to the public until he's blue in the face, but until the EULA is changed, it means nothing.Exact quotes from the EULA with bold by me for emphasis):"YOU ARE AGREEING TO BE BOUND BY THE TERMS OF THIS AGREEMENT. IF YOU DO NOT AGREE TO THE TERMS OF THIS AGREEMENT, PLEASE DISCONTINUE USAGE."" License Grant. Subject to the terms and conditions of this EULA, Licensor hereby grants Licensee a fully paid-up, nontransferable, nonsublicensable, nonexclusive license during the Term of this EULA to use the Software, but only on no more than one computer at any one time, only by no more than one user at any one time, and only for purposes other than personal/consumer entertainment."This is what I referred to as "turning a blind eye" to consumer use. If consumer use was really allowed, it would not be expressly prohibited in the very first clause of the EULA.Edit: Don't believe me? Read the EULA yourself: http://www.prepar3d....agreement-eula/

Are you a lawyer then? Your opinion counts for more than a spokesperson of the company? (who sought the advice of the LM legal dept)Here we go.....I have downloaded P3D.Here is my statement:'I will be using P3D for personal flight training situations and scenarios (and by default being "entertained")'Okay, so now I wait for the FBI, RCMP, and even Men in Black to show up and take me away?Please.................... Edited January 7, 2012 by GHarrall

[gweilo8888 1]

Are you a lawyer then? Your opinion counts for more than a spokesperson of the company? (who sought the advice of the LM legal dept)Here we go.....I have downloaded P3D.Here is my statement:'I will be using P3D for personal flight training situations and scenarios (and by default being "entertained")'Okay, so now I wait for the FBI, RCMP, and even Men in Black to show up and take me away?Please....................

Sorry, not taking the bait. You're on ignore...

[mas618 17]

I am an beta tester for Flight, and I share the community shock on how the development has turned out regarding Flight. Though I would say it is an excellent made program if you truly are an enthusiastic arcade loving flyboy or a girl that just love anything about plains and games. Though for us flight simulator fans the game Flight is an tremendous let down in regards to FSX and what we would have loved to see in an upcoming new packaged.As an beta tester for Flight I must add that I have still after 10+ years with MSFS been surprised with something new in the latest release, there are improvements to the game, one being it is now a true game. So the question is, will you pay for those criteria in a game, knowing that it will always be a game and nothing more? It seems MS now focus on 3-4 special functions in Flight, I will not go into what they are, but as far as I can see they cost money, especially if you want new things added to the game.I think PMDG is right in their assumptions regarding the future of Flight and their own product. I truly loved and still do the PMDG series and cannot wait until the 777 are released to the public, but sadly it is and properly will be for FSX also in the many years to come..Two simulators worth looking at is of course the new improved X-plane 10 which by the way is great and in many ways equal or far better to FSX, but it has as mr. Randazzo still many things to be amended, improved or purhaps replaced in the new sim. And of course we would love to see many of the FS developers both pay and freeware now start to make something for X-plane also..The other simulator worth looking at is another simulator called Outerra, I am also here an beta tester and can proudly say that this might be the one simulator we all have been waiting for. It has in my mind the best graphic engine of them all. Do a search to find out for your selves.So to conclude, as a beta tester I found that I am still curious about Flight, but also extremely sad that the flight simulator as we know it to be, is gone for good, buried with the ACES team.

Outerra - sounds absolutely amazing!?!? This is promising ;)Mas