I am a simmer since MS FS 1.0 I have never used X-Plane but it's obviously time to customize/expand/tailor X-plane to take FSX's place - -Here are some deep pockets the new X-Plane, PMDG, Aerosoft, Level-D et al "consortium"can dive into in order pay your developers, overhead, marketing et al...Tom Cruise -Pilot - AC OwnerClin Eastwood - PilotJohn Travolta - Pilot - AC OwnerHarrison Ford - Pilot AC OwnerMorgan Freeman - Pilot AC OwnerAngelina Jolie - Studen PilotJack Roush - Pilot AC OwnerColin Fergusen - PilotJimmy Buffett - Pilot AC OwnerJim Tweeto - only kiddingand many others

Ummm, hi guys. I have not been contacted by anyone at PMDG and am very concerned that someone has been trying to get hold of us and there is nothing heard. I have been posting away on AVSIM and am available at Prepar3D.com. I haven't received any PMs or emails, so I will reach out with a PM here. I only stumbled across this forum topic after someone posted in the Prepar3D forums. I am here and available.

See John, I wasn't even that off the topic in my post on LM forum. Yes, I admit my language wasn't completely appropriate, hell, who doesn't at times use a bit of cursing, in the end, all I wrote was for the good in hope that P3D gets even more recognized.

P3D is the future in flight siming. Keep up the good work. There is a lot of interest in P3D and hopes it becomes THE flightsim for the mainstream hardcore user.

I am not spending $400 on a simulation sorry

I am not spending $400 on a simulation sorry

Well it's also 10 bucks a month... the same price than a magazine or a junk food burger and it's twice cheaper than angle of attack aviator pro video subscription...Expensive, I don't think so. :( Benjamin

Edited January 8, 201214 yr by bendead

P3D is the future in flight siming.

No matter what they do with it, it remains old software that's fixed as far as possible. If this really is the future, it won't be the future I am hoping for. It will be limited in a lot of ways no matter what. You can say that P3D extended the life of FSX somehow, but it's a very limited limited future.

No matter what they do with it, it remains old software that's fixed as far as possible. If this really is the future, it won't be the future I am hoping for. It will be limited in a lot of ways no matter what. You can say that P3D extended the life of FSX somehow, but it's a very limited limited future.

:( I bet you won't be singing the same song for too long.

:( I bet you won't be singing the same song for too long.

Well, that would be cool with me, because I didn't say I like the song...! :(

Until the legal question about Prepar3d is clarfied, both developers and users won't know where they stand. However, it seems to me that the P3D EULA doesn't mean anything other than the product cannot be marketed or sold as as a game or for personal use. Usually, such restrictions are the other way around - not for commercial use.Commercial use in this case means it ought to be used to demonstrate 3d Visualistaions of potential products to potential buyers. Therefore it could be argued that the 3D models demonstrated are visualisations intended for other 3D software applications. That would include Flight Simulators.

That is not what it means. What it means is that P3D cannot be sold as a competetor to an upcoming Microsoft sim

Right, and if P3D gets too popular for "personal use", one could imagine MS would stop it to protecttheir investments in Flight. In other words a risky platform to develop for...M

Until the legal question about Prepar3d is clarfied, both developers and users won't know where they stand. However, it seems to me that the P3D EULA doesn't mean anything other than the product cannot be marketed or sold as as a game or for personal use. Usually, such restrictions are the other way around - not for commercial use.Commercial use in this case means it ought to be used to demonstrate 3d Visualistaions of potential products to potential buyers. Therefore it could be argued that the 3D models demonstrated are visualisations intended for other 3D software applications. That would include Flight Simulators.

The problem I see with P3D is not the legal stuff which the discussion keeps on being bogged down in. Obviously LM (presumably after taking advice form their legal department) have decided that their current marketing and distribution model is good enough to keep them out of trouble. Whether a home user is in violation of the EULA or not is a question that we can argue about on these boards until we are blue in the face, but that will only be settled if and when LM brings a suit against such a user in a court of law (a action for which I can't see any good motivation).The problem is a far more fundamental one: marketing and economics.Why are most people here so upset about Flight? Because Microsoft decided that hard core simmers were not their target market and adjusted their product accordingly, without taking the needs or desires of hard core simmers into account [side-note, which is also why I don't think we need to worry about MS worrying about hard core simmers 'defecting' to P3D, they've already decided to leave that market].Who is the target market for P3D? Commercial developers. Not home simmers.P3D is a piece of commercial software, that for a variety of reasons is also of interest to home simmers. That could change at any time though. Not because LM actively decides to shut out home users, but because they decide to move in a direction that home users don't want. Maybe that will never happen, or maybe it will happen tomorrow, there simply are no guarantees.To give an example: if only home users use the NGX in P3D and the commerical users want a feature that would break backwards compatibility with the NGX, would LM care, even if all the home users are up in arms about it? This is less of a hypothetical example than it might seem, since it has already been mentioned that the upcoming Direct X 11 compatibility will break many add-ons.To give a different example. Suppose I phone up a company that makes Level-D simulators and tell them I would like to buy one of their simulators to put in my basement and I will pay them full list price for it. Are they going to care I'm a home enthusiast and not an airline? No (unless they have some kind of legal obligation to flag me for a CIA watchlist ;)). Are they going to care that the electricity network in my home will not power the sim without modification? No again. Their product has been developed for commercial customers. As a non-commercial customer I'm free to buy it, but there's no reason to assume that my specific needs and desires have been taken into account.[A small side-note for the people that mention the bucket-loads of money LM could make from selling P3D to home simmers: if 100,000 home simmers pay LM $120/year for the developers license that's equivalent to the revenue generated by selling approximately 1/5th of a JSF, i.e. peanuts.]Do I believe LM is going to take any active steps to block out home users? No, I don't see any reason for them to, short of hypothetical Microsoft legal action. On the other hand I don't see any reason for LM to actively bring home users on board, or to ensure that P3D continues to meet their needs and desires. For now it does, but there are no guarantees that it will in the future, and my interpretation of the PMDG statements is that PMDG currently feels the same way.Mr Nicol, in one of the other forum threads you mentioned about how you are careful about posting here since your words tend to get over analysed, which is something I can understand. However if you feel I have misrepresented LM's position towards home users of P3D (and I freely admit quite a bit is speculation on my side) or have otherwise characterised you, your team or LM unfairly, please let me know.

You bring up fair points there John-Alan. Another point is that P3Ds EULA and PMDGs EULA is not compatible. P3D's EULA states that it can only be sold to commercial entities while PMDGs EULA specifically states that it can only be sold to non-commercial entities.

Prepar3D is not the future of flight simulation! No consumer (including me) will EVER pay $500 for a game that only has 24 vs the thousands in FSX. Sorry, but it's the truth!

Edited January 8, 201214 yr by linux731

Prepar3D is not the future of flight simulation! No consumer (including me) will EVER pay $500 for a game that only has 24 vs the thousands in FSX. Sorry, but it's the truth!

Sorry if I missed it but "24 vs the thousands" of what ?And 10 bucks a month for your favourite hobby is too much as well ?

Sorry if I missed it but "24 vs the thousands" of what ?

My bad, 45 not 24. Airports.vs.

And 10 bucks a month for your favourite hobby is too much as well ?

The developer subscription is $9.95! The consumer one is $500!

Sorry again but P3D comes with the same amount of stock airports and detailed areas as FSX SP2 or ESP. And you get Norfolk as a bonus. As for the 9.95 licence, it has been discussed ad nauseam.

Edited January 8, 201214 yr by Jean-Paul Mes