PMDG> Could you ever consider to build a flight simulator by your self. the PMDG FLIGHT SIM - wow what a title!! Maybe go together with other companies in financing such a project - much like an open source project. It might take years to do but wow it could be amazing!

Or maybe consider this one if it develops:

I think if we all impose a boycott on MS it will make a difference. MS peeps just want to make some more money and they don't really care about their costommers much. Shame on you Mr. Gates, shame on you! :(

I think if we all impose a boycott on MS it will make a difference. MS peeps just want to make some more money and they don't really care about their costommers much. Shame on you Mr. Gates, shame on you! :(

If Bill Gates was still at the helm, we would be discussing FS11, he was a fan. Yor blaming the wrong organ grinder Ed.

I think if we all impose a boycott on MS it will make a difference. MS peeps just want to make some more money and they don't really care about their costommers much. Shame on you Mr. Gates, shame on you! :(

Bill Gates left Microsoft 3 years ago and works for charity now, this is possibly why MS have turned their back on the sim community. Maybe we should all write to him and see if he can get them to change their mind!

I agree completely. Everybody touting the $10 monthly developer license is missing something -- you're buying into a license that is not intended for consumer use. Yes, Lockheed has suggested that they'll turn a blind eye to this right now. There's nothing to say that will be the case next year, next month, or even next week. It's perfectly possible that Lockheed will suddenly decide to enforce the developer requirements for any reason whatsoever, at which point you could lose access to your sim and anything third-party that you've purchased to work with it.I'd love to support Prepar3D, but for me, it's not an option right now, and it won't be until it's possible for a consumer to legitimately buy a retail version which doesn't rely on pretending to be a developer, and doesn't rely on a monthly licensing scheme that means my investment in the sim can be nullified at the flick of a switch whenever Lockheed decides to turn the servers off.

Straight from the horses mouth at LM - John Nicol is the lead dev of P3D:"Just to be clear (and trying not to sound defensive!). Anyone can purchase Prepar3D. We do not sell it as an entertainment product and the EULA talks about that, which means that it will not be appearing on the shelves of Best Buy next to Call of Duty any time soon..... I am not sure where the rumour started that we sell only to certain people, but anyone can buy it. It isn't about consumers, but end-use. If you are a pilot, simulation user, student, whatever and want to use it for familiarization, training, taxiing over bugs then go for it. If you are 10 or 110 it doesn't matter. If you want to use it at an arcade game, then buy something else. You can go to our website and purchase it with a credit card and download it. The commercial license version is $499 and we have added a considerable amount of features and made a lot of bug fixes to the code that we were fortunate enough to procure from Microsoft. A list of features can be found on our website at www.prepar3D.com. We certainly have added in bathymetry data to allow the use of submersibles and we have added in a few features for hard-core users that they should find interesting including true multi-channel (spreads the load of the image generator across multiple PCs), update to DirectInput 8 to allow up to 32 axes and 128 buttons per joystick, sensor views (night vision and infra-red), updated landclasses, GPS upgrades and so on. We have also updated and improved the SDK documentation and added more samples for developers. We are also going to be releasing an update version 1.2 of Prepar3D and the SDK in the next few weeks.Those that are looking to test, integrate, develop, investigate etc and therefore do not require a full commercial license can subscribe for $9.95 per month and receive 2 copies of the software. That is an option that many people are taking and I would be glad to see more people come on board and see what they can do with the app! There are no restrictions to joining the developer network.If people are using Prepar3D for commercial activities, then switching to the commercial license is appropriate and required.For Victor, sorry that the website isn't clear enough. I will work with Lockheed communications to try to get some clarity on that. We are just a bunch of engineers and not necessarily the best at marketing!!"Regards,John NicolPrepar3D.

Edited January 7, 201214 yr by GHarrall

If Bill Gates was still at the helm, we would be discussing FS11, he was a fan. Yor blaming the wrong organ grinder Ed.

Quite. The software world is going to suffer, as we lose two geniuses who made what we have today.

You can keep quoting that all you want, but this is also from the horse's mouth:

Blah Blah.No different than you accusing the P3D folks of lying at every opportunity.Its PLAIN for you to see...in black and white.

It's worth noting that PMDG has less of a reason to deceive consumers on this point than Lockheed Martin.

What a load of nonsense

Edited January 7, 201214 yr by GHarrall

Funny to see some people blaiming MS for trying to generate money. Wake up my friends that is what is business about. Even Mr Randozzo needs to generate money to pay his own bills and pay his staff.It is the right of any company (even MS) to make their own choices.And it is the right of every customer to buy or not.This fora is visited by "as real as it gets" folks so no surprise here that the we are not happy with the way flight is developing. But whether or not this is the right business decision can only be proven in the future.I am with the folks that are not too concerned about this. FSx is finally properly running on my rig. I will start building a home cockpit. PMDG, ORbx will release new software which will even make the immersion bigger and that will keep me occupied for years.In the meantime the directors of the add-on companies will make their own judgement on where they will go but with a proper business attitude (as mentioned they need to make sure they keep making money also) at the bases of their decisions.So as long as we, as the as the real as it can get nerds, will keep investing our money in FSx add-ons, FSx will remain alive.And if MS made a wrong decision about the business model of Flight they will come back on it and at that time, as mr Randozza rightly stated, he and the other add on developers might be in a much better position to negotiate a approriate deal, which they of course will do given that this generates enough business and money to make it worthwhile to them.Same goes for LM and Prepare3d. As long as they can get away with it they will. It's all a balance of demand and supply.And remember, we customers, hold the greatest power in this game. So enjoy the openess of the communication in today's world. Nowadays we can investigate soo much more than let's say 10 years ago helping us making informed, well prepared buying decisionsAnd now back to a flight with the NGx under fsx gold. Works flawlessly so why bother to get something else (my stance, feel free to have another opinion)

Edited January 7, 201214 yr by killerbee1958

Posts like these make me wish that ALL companies could be as forthright as PMDG/RSR/Tabs. At most larger corps, you NEVER get this straight-forward of an answer. I know it is NOT full disclosure, but it's far closer than the doubletalk we usually get from companies (our own and others). Thank you for the response.After considering the platform some, I don't think Flight is necessarily a bad decision:

• It introduces new (albeit, young) blood into the Flight Sim world that may convert later to "hardcore"
• Speculation on my part, but MS can change their pricing scheme anytime they feel like allowing our beloved add on developers to make a profit
• More speculation, perhaps the Flight engine has a more robust engine then we've lead to believe and CAN support "hardcore" add ons

IMO, I do NOT believe that P3D is the next big thing. Despite the intense amateur legal discussion in the Flight forum, I just do not see how P3D is for enthusiasts such as ourselves. The license seems very suspect to me, but I never went to law school so who am I?So I've established I'm not legal counsel... Well I'm also not a professional coder. I'm slightly worried about the cross platform stance. I'm not alone in saying I highly enjoy the PMDG products, and I have to have faith that multi platform support won't increase development (and release times) more than they already are. As a non-prosessional coder I have to have faith in a company (that's scary!) that they are doing the best for it's consumers. I hope it works out for the PMDG bottom line and so the faithful folks in this niche market can continue to enjoy the quality we've grown accustomed to.As far as X-Plane support, I've read other developers comment on how it has "warts" can't support in-depth systems and the flight model is no good. From my own perspective, the XP10 demo wasn't such a great experience. Call me crazy, but I've always wanted to deal with sloped runways in the sim, but some of XP10s RWs look like they were made on the side of a small mountain. I'm also under the impression that only the SEA area has airport buildings. In the XP10 YouTube video, the UA 747's FMC showed me I cannot EVER use the default airliner. There's more but I'll stop with those examples. All of that to say this: XP10 has some work ahead of it to reach what most of us expect in a flight sim. Eye candy DOES make a difference, so here's hoping L-R can continue to improve their sim.The future of flight simming is uncertain at this point, but as already stated by some, I have to go where the best quality aircraft developer goes.

Edited January 7, 201214 yr by SKEWR

Well the great thing about microsoft is, if you don't like the way they do business you can try and buy enough stock and get on the board of directors. Maybe if the entire hardcore community combines enough resources we could buy enough stock for one guy to go... I agree with not completely giving up on flight, as far as the business model goes it is genius... They sold FSX for what? $60? PMDG sells one aircraft for 79 dollars. They set up a system that would almost eliminate the possibility of piracy.The product isn't great but as far as performance it is 10 times better in beta than fsx could have dreamed of being at launch. The only place I really think they screwed up is not giving at least a base model world. They could have still done Hawaii all done up but not doing just a base of the world I think will turn people off. The question to PMDG becomes what is the economy of sale when it comes to their product, how much more can they sell it for? It appears that $499 or $10 a month is beyond most people here, but when there is almost a pseudo monopoly in this industry I am starting to think that it isn't far off...I will blush and say that I play MMO's $25 on a month top of the $60 game to go mash my mouse, my wife thinks its stupid, most of you probably do to but I enjoy doing it and I have enough to afford doing it. Personally I think the next great flight sim will be in an MMO type format. With everyone paying a monthly subscription, kind of like iracing.com. People are less likely to act stupid when there is a monthly fee involved, and it will afford much easier access to their addons, plus the 3rd party developers will have less overhead dealing with piracy. The first company who does it with the support of people like PMDG and others will be the winner, mark my words it will happen.

Edited January 7, 201214 yr by snwboardn

No it's not at all what business is all about. The most successful business ventures and entrepreneurs are those that have a passion for what they do, and develop a product they believe in. .

I agree. But this doesn't mean it shouldn't generate money. It is so true that only companies with a vision remain succesfull.So in fact i do not think we disagree. The only question that can not be answered whether or not the visionair is present wrt Flight. We are not the ones to decide. the future is. Given our interest in something else we will for sure not be te ones to buy flight in great numbers. But it might be that the visionairs at MS are aiming at another part of the community.Only future will tell.

Doing a pilot project for X-Plane is a wise decision Randazzo.If there is anything we can do to help, feel free to contact us!M

Organized consumer boycotts simply don't work, however, individuals making decisions on products and services work to influence the market all the time. Just as MS how their Zune is going. I can only imagine that many in this community will install the free version of Flight to check it out but do you really think many will buy another island so they can fly through more yellow triangles? Time will tell where this goes but my guess it that is goes nowhere and MS either scraps the entire project or does a rethink and we end up getting our sim after all. My guess on timing is 2014.

Edited January 7, 201214 yr by MarkW

How would you feel about P3D if LM made an offer for PMDG to assist in the development of a Boeing KC-767 tanker system but would have to pull several technicians off the B777 project to do it? Or worse...

Good point but this wouldn't have to be bad news; this is the same way DCS works. They get a contract for an Aircraft from the military (whoever) then release a version of that to the public. I would personally welcome a PMDG, Lockheed Martin funded 767, even if it's only the tanker version,