Prepar3D is not the future of flight simulation! No consumer (including me) will EVER pay $500 for a game that only has 24 vs the thousands in FSX. Sorry, but it's the truth!

Hate to say this but you are wrong. I paid around £200 for all the PMDG planes, add up all the additional airports, REX, Mytraffic, AS2012 etc... I have easily paid more than $500.If LM was offering many improvments (not that interested in the submarine aspect) and allowed free or very cheap upgrades for personal use (assuming that personal use is even allowed) then i would pay $500.I don't like subscription models, but i am seriously considering this path.I am looking at Flight and while i may come in for some serious flak for this, it's actually not that bad. It's pretty, smooth and for VFR flying ideal, i like the mission aspect. I completely understand why it's getting the reception it is getting; but looking at it as a completely new simulation, i have to say it's actually quite fun.

Edited January 8, 201214 yr by WotanUK

P3D has all 25,000+ airports that FSX does.

Well that's not clearly written on the website!

The developer subscription is $9.95! The consumer one is $500!

I wish you would inform yourself better before making statements. 500 is not a consumer license. P3D is not a consumer product or it would have replaced FSX already.It is a retail license for commercial use.But let's refrain from discussing licenses and EULAs as this has been left for P3D forum and has been asked to stop discussing on AVSIM.

I have a developers subscription to P3D and I can assure you all the airports are there in their entirety :)

+1 :(

Edited January 8, 201214 yr by Jean-Paul Mes

I wish you would inform yourself better before making statements. 500 is not a consumer license. P3D is not a consumer product or it would have replaced FSX already.It is a retail license for commercial use.But let's refrain from discussing licenses and EULAs as this has been left for P3D forum and has been asked to stop discussing on AVSIM.

Then why would they waste money on...Nevermind.

Then why would they waste money on...Nevermind.

Why can't you just accept it as it is?Use it or don't use it. Choice is yours. They are giving you the way.

Try it, your mileage may vary but check performance, texture loading and blurries. Then come back and talk about it.

Edited January 8, 201214 yr by Jean-Paul Mes

No thanks.[end discussion]

 

...Why are most people here so upset about Flight? Because Microsoft decided that hard core simmers were not their target market and adjusted their product accordingly, without taking the needs or desires of hard core simmers into account

Because MSFS has been an on-going franchise for decades. Ask yourself how much you would have spent on add-ons and especially hardware had you known back in 2006 that FSX was going to be the last version of MSFS. Then think how much add-on developpers would have invested in making add-ons for FSX, had they known FSX was going to be the last version of MSFS. Likely many developpers would have changed careers rather than continue developping for a dying franchise.

...Suppose I phone up a company that makes Level-D simulators and tell them I would like to buy one of their simulators to put in my basement and I will pay them full list price for it. Are they going to care I'm a home enthusiast and not an airline?

You bet! There was Flight Experience selling a commercial flight sim franchise with a feature-complete hardware cockpit based on FSX and Project Magenta for installation in shopping malls and they were shut down.Cheers,- jahman.

Edited January 8, 201214 yr by jahman

Gents-A couple of important notes on this thread:1) I just deleted 32 posts from this thread for being unsigned. Some of them were from multiple infractions- and I'm sorry to have capped a bunch of insightful posts in this thread- but we do require that all users sign their posts in this forum.2) Based on what we know from the marketing information that is publicly available for P3D: It is not going to be the platform upon which PMDG bases our future consumer product line. While some of you have made salient arguments for/against the platform- the bottom line comes down to consumer acceptance. Given the manner in which the product is currently marketed, it will never be a mainstream platform upon which we can rely. Now- I've received a forum PM from the fellow at P3D and we'll have a discussion related to PMDG's Commercial Licensing division- but this isn't something you guys are going to care a whole lot about either... So please- lets stop bashing one another's points regarding EULA's and the like... The entire conversation isn't even within the scope of what we are working on- so there isn't any point beating one another up.3) Please gents- be civil with one another. I came about this close ---> | | to banning one of you for the way you were treating your peers in the thread. If you find yourself feeling emotionally charged while writing a reply- it is probably a good time to go out and get a cup of coffee (i recommend decaf, in the circumstances) and come back to it later... We're all on the same team here.

Oops I should have signed my posts sorry 'bout that.

Based on what we know from the marketing information that is publicly available for P3D: It is not going to be the platform upon which PMDG bases our future consumer product line.

Sort of narrows the direction down a bit unless MS decides to change its present stance...Robert Thomason

EDITPost removed by myself... Someone didn't like it, so... I hope no one quoted me in the meantime... If you did, reconsider your post! :(

Edited January 8, 201214 yr by J van E

2) Based on what we know from the marketing information that is publicly available for P3D: It is not going to be the platform upon which PMDG bases our future consumer product line. While some of you have made salient arguments for/against the platform- the bottom line comes down to consumer acceptance. Given the manner in which the product is currently marketed, it will never be a mainstream platform upon which we can rely.

This is very unfortunate news Robert.Personally, my options are being culled fast. MS Flight's closed architecture is not for me, so I will not be moving forward with it. Most third party developers already have tight margins, and the new DLC concept will make it even tougher. It will relegate add-on's to only the ones that can cover costs. This will leave a huge hole in the content that is less popular and hence cost recovery impossible.X-Plane has been around a long time and those that use it will continue to do so, and it may even pick up a few more users in the near future, but it is not in line with what I look for in a simulation, and I have my reservations on how it creates it's flight models and dynamics. Being a Mac based platform will hold it down to available Mac hardware in my opinion, which will keep it crippled for PC users or at the least, not optimized. Yes, I have tried it.Prepar3D I have found, offers thus far nearly all that I am looking for. It's rock solid, and most of the code has been re-worked to have little resemblance to the original ESP content. I own every PMDG product that functions in FSX that I know of, and in particular I have continual difficulties with the MD-11, 747-400, and the 737 NGX causing the FSX app to crash. I do not blame PMDG. I do not think your products are flawed. I do blame FSX though. It's old and tired and is having the bile squeezed out of it to perform in a way it was never released for. Prepar3D has not had a single failure in over 37 hours of flight. Something I have never achieved with FSX. Sometimes I get through a flight, sometimes I don't, but I don't have to go through 2 hours of flying to find out that I won't. If something is present in Prepar3D that it does not like, it causes problems right off the start up, no waiting, no surprises. The developer support I have witnessed is second to none that I have seen for any platform.Given the high level of quality and fidelity of PMDG products I find the divorce from Prepar3D as rather puzzling, but I respect your reasoning's. I may be the few, but I certainly will not be rooted on a platform for the content of one developer even if it is superior to any current offerings. To me, the content is just as important as the platform and vice versa. I understand that FSX will be around for much time to come, but for me, it's lack of stability has relegated it to useless. I do hope you are correct that you will be able to create for it for many years to come, but FSX is always one updated driver or O.S. away from destruction that developers will have no control over. Prepar3D is backed by a group of developers to work through these issues. Since I already have 3 expensive and worthy aircraft from PMDG that I can not utilize within FSX, and have not ported over to Prepar3D, I can only conclude from your statement that sadly, I will not be purchasing any more of your offerings, as I will be bound by the same difficulties. Again, I am but only one, but I want to put it "out there". I believe a developer has the right to know why they lose some clients.Thank you for some great products and your great technical support. I hope someone else with your standards will be up to picking up what you have laid down for Prepar3D.

Edited January 8, 201214 yr by Highiron

Sure MS Flight might not be for us - be glad that we still have FS9 and FSX to suit us just fine!!! I may understand what MS is doing and why, but that doesn't mean I agree with it. The ONE thing I DO like about it is (hopefully), it WILL bring flight simulation - in whatever manner - to larger masses of young people and old. The technology is there to develop highly detailed aircraft, so I'm sure FLIGHT is capable to handle the demands of a PMDG product, but it is BETTER able to suit GENERAL AVIATION in my opinion. Just like all other games today - they release a minimal product, and ask you to pay for DLC's, etc... - that is now becoming the norm. If they want to make FLIGHT a game, let them....we still have FS9, FSX, and X-Plane.God Bless PMDG.

Thank you for some great products and your great technical support. I hope someone else with your standards will be up to picking up what you have laid down for Prepar3D.

I don't think that they have completely dismissed the idea, but licensing issues will arise, Robert said in another post their commercial divisions were talking now but "that wouldn't really be of interest to us".I think another post further back summarized far more eloquently than i ever could the position of LM and consumers, forgive me but i cannot remember who posted it; basically saying that LM will be happy for customers to purchase the product but we (the home simmer) would never be the intended audience. If LM develop something for a paying industrial customer and it breaks something for us, LM's response may will be tough!Frankly it's a worry that i also share, i believe it was the same poster that indicated even significant sales of Prepar3d would not match the sale of a single F35, obviously the profit margins may be very different.Quite honestly i fear for the future of simming, Flight, fun though it is, is not a serious simming tool at the moment and may never be. X-Plane, has a truely awful interface and really (in my opinion) is behind FSX in real terms. To summerise the Flight Sim situation we have DCS and Rise of Flight on the combat front, Prepar3d, FSX and X-Plane, then a whole farmyard full of arcade flight games, Flight, HAWX, that dreadful Top Gun game et-alI remember reading that companies did still make money from Sim's but couldn't be bothered anymore, it was far easier to role out Call of Duty 15, Consoles came of age, they don't lend themselves to simming at all and perhaps people just don't want to spend hours reading a manual to shoot another plane down...happy memories of that mega Falcon 4 manual; actually on the subject, that is the way you stop Piracy, those huge manuals!