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BreezyPointDeparture

what is the best 727

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Hey,So i know PMDG dont make one, but people who fly PMDG are the most realistic and experienced simmers, so its a good base to ask. But what is the best 727 addon??ThanksMax

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Try out Captain Sim, I have the -100 and -200 and they're pretty good. Been out for awhile now too so the service updates are pretty mature.I should mention, Captain Sim's stuff isn't even close to PMDG's systems simulation, just an FYI :wink:Best,

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Dreamfleet 727sThey're not native to FSX, though. I believe it'll work in FSX, but it wasn't developed for it.To be honest, the CaptainSim isn't realistic enough for me. It'll allow things that it's not meant to allow (I seem to remember dodgy things with the pneumatics and hydraulics). The Gen phase does nothing, either.

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I second the Dreamfleet 727. That was my second payware add on, and still a favorite. She's aged, but for the old Boeing systems she's still a decent purchase.Porting to FSX is possible (but it's clunky), and the aircraft configurator (very neat feature) causes a few issues in Windows 7 64b that can be easily fixed.

  • Sounds are good
  • FDE feels great, though roll rate seems somewhat off. I'm not type rated so take it for what it is.
  • The VC is old. 2Ds are used for the engineer's panel, but this is the only aircraft I didn't mind 2D panels
  • Systems are excellent. Fuel distribution, APU. It's all there and correct. I have a good bit of time on my school's 727 engineer seat. (Yes, we have a real working 727)

Finally, Flight1 has a great refund policy. If it's not your cup of tea, uninstall it (first) and get your refund.

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Forget about Captain Sim. I have it and it is not worth it nor is his support.

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Yeah, I bought it (CS) and was unimpressed. I wasn't surprised by that, but still, I wasn't happy I bought it.The model is awesome, and it has some 'neat' features, but it falls short of my expectations of realism.

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DREAMFLEET! They have all the manuals and fuel consumption charts you need to plan a flight! People would complain about the airplane's Flight Dynamics, but real world pilots seemed to confirm the simulation's behaviour! I LOVE the dreamfleet 727. You can even edit the cfg file to represent a -200adv in terms of fuel capacity. Just ignore the load editor and follow Boeing specs to get to 210,000 lbs, and TRY to get that thing off a 10000 ft runway lol. Captain Sim is visually about perfect. Sucks for realistic flying though

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Forget about Captain Sim. I have it and it is not worth it nor is his support.
I would have to agree on the support end man, practically nonexistent there. They couldn't even issue me a refund after they charged my credit card twice by accident. Told me I could have any other aircraft for free. Now I'm just waiting it out for their 737 (when it actually is complete). I like Captain Sim for their more "vintagey" Boeings. I wish their systems modelling was better but you can't ask for everything I guess. Their 707 is my favorite so far. Nice break from all the hi-tech goodness we have with the NGX.Anyways, just my 2 cents.Best of luck on the search for a good 727 my friend.Cheers,

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people who fly PMDG are the most realistic and experienced simmers
LOL, nice one Max, keep dreaming mate. Now I love PMDG addons, own a couple myself, but by your logic people who drive Lexus or AMG cars are more experienced or better drivers than those driving Toyotas or Mercedes??? Not neccessarily, you could also say that just have more disposable income. Money%20Eyes.gif
To be honest, the CaptainSim isn't realistic enough for me. It'll allow things that it's not meant to allow (I seem to remember dodgy things with the pneumatics and hydraulics).
Hey Kyle, would be interested to know if these particular features upset you so much you wouldnt reccomend the CS-727? I had the FS9 727 from CS and recently bought the FSX native model, am very happy myself and would buy the CS model again, even when not on sale.
I second the Dreamfleet 727. That was my second payware add on, and still a favorite. She's aged, but for the old Boeing systems she's still a decent purchase.
Finally some useful feedback from Zach. Do yo own the CS 727 too Zach? Be interested to hear your comparison of the two offerings.

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Hey Kyle, would be interested to know if these particular features upset you so much you wouldnt reccomend the CS-727? I had the FS9 727 from CS and recently bought the FSX native model, am very happy myself and would buy the CS model again, even when not on sale.
Hey Dean,Sure! First, as an owner of the DF727 as well (bought the CS because it was native FSX and I didn't realize I could've ported the DF727), the DF727 had me spoiled, and the CS honestly didn't live up to its standard.I'll have to go back into it and rip it apart again to find all of the issues, but off the top of my head, here are a few things:-Using the default Cessna shut down and a swap to the CS727 causes issues if you turn the battery and alternator off. Pulling the mixture out also causes an issue. What happens is, on the start, you'll have battery power for as long as the battery can push current. Basically, the CS battery switch works, but the generators don't flip the GEN switch for FS, so if you flipped the ALTernator switch in the Cessna, your systems are going to die somewhere in the taxi or on departure. Most other developers tie the GEN switches in the plane to the FS GEN switches to avoid this. Furthermore, the CS727's fuel knobs on the pedestal don't control the mixture control for FS, meaning, if you shut down the default Cessna using the mixture knob, you're going to have to push it back in before loading the CS727 (or hit CTRL+SHIFT+F4 when you get in the CS727). Sure, the workarounds are easy (keyboard shortcuts to turn on the GENs and the mixture), but it detracts from the overall realism. My fuel levers in the CS727 should be flipping the fuel levers (or overriding the fuel system of FS). It's nearly an industry standard now (like the carb heat always being on in turboprops/fuel injected props, because the sim doesn't differentiate).-In addition to the GEN knobs not controlling the actual GENs in the sim, the electric phase knobs do nothing in the CS727. With the DF727, they at least work as eye candy (you have to adjust them to put the gen in phase, but it won't adversely affect the flight if you don't).-I remember some issue with the pneumatic system, where the APU didn't work as it should (as is modeled in the DF727), but I'd have to go back and check to confirm. The packs also have some quirk to them.-I also feel like the fuel system and hydraulics had some dodgy quirk, but I can't remember it off the top of my head (I'll check tonight, as in the case above).-You cannot integrate the CIVA INS to have it run the AP. The AP had some quirks as well (yes, I know it's not your standard AP, but I got it to work properly with the DF727).The rest of the aircraft is stellar. The VC and 2D pop-ups are actually reasonably well done (not NGX quality in crispness and frame friendliness), but CS is really good at getting models to look good, and it shows. Visually, it's great. If you don't mind the systems not working up to par (as in, not operating them properly still lets you slide by), then it's a perfect fit.I, however, can't deal with not having consequences for not operating the aircraft properly.Hope that helps some.

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LOL, nice one Max, keep dreaming mate. Now I love PMDG addons, own a couple myself, but by your logic people who drive Lexus or AMG cars are more experienced or better drivers than those driving Toyotas or Mercedes??? Not neccessarily, you could also say that just have more disposable income. Money%20Eyes.gifHey Kyle, would be interested to know if these particular features upset you so much you wouldnt reccomend the CS-727? I had the FS9 727 from CS and recently bought the FSX native model, am very happy myself and would buy the CS model again, even when not on sale.Finally some useful feedback from Zach. Do yo own the CS 727 too Zach? Be interested to hear your comparison of the two offerings.
Hi Dean,No I am not referring to anyones income...how about actual procedure and process. I am comparing, for instance, the stock Cessna 132 supplied by FSX vs, any addon Cessna - the addon will be way more realistic and follow more proper configurations, simulation, and flying characteristics. The model will just be better.Im not saying everyone who flys the PMDG is a rated pilot, however they have purchased, with full knowledge, the most advanced model for an aircraft that can fly in the FSX environment. And it is without any shadow of a doubt, that the NGX is by far the most advanced addon you can get, regardless of the price. So next time Dean, before you accuse someone of something they didnt do, use your head and think.And last but not least, an AMG is a Mercedes.....and just because someone has one, doesnt make them more experienced or better, they just happen to have the means and the desire to own something that is very high end and worth every penny.....as oppose to settling for lesser addons that will make you spend money just the same

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Sure! First, as an owner of the DF727 as well (bought the CS because it was native FSX and I didn't realize I could've ported the DF727), the DF727 had me spoiled, and the CS honestly didn't live up to its standard.
Awesome Kyle, thanks for that detail. Wish I'd taken a look at it when I was on FS9 now,
And last but not least, an AMG is a Mercedes.....and just because someone has one, doesnt make them more experienced or better...
Exactly Max, seems you've blissfully missed my point completely, hillarious Money%20Eyes.gif

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Awesome Kyle, thanks for that detail. Wish I'd taken a look at it when I was on FS9 now
You're welcome.As a side note, I mentioned the CIVA INS can't be integrated, but the vast majority of 727s just used old school (radio) nav, if I remember correctly. As an example, I believe FDX operated their 72s as old school nav*. I just figured it was worth noting for those who were wondering (which is how DF and CS modeled it).* - If you look up even a more recent FDX 722 flight plan, you'll find they file /W, meaning RVSM. E, F, G and R all mean RVSM with advanced nav (FMS/GNS/RNP), so /W just means RVSM but without the fancy new stuff.

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Awesome Kyle, thanks for that detail. Wish I'd taken a look at it when I was on FS9 now,Exactly Max, seems you've blissfully missed my point completely, hillarious Money%20Eyes.gif
O i see what you were trying to say...however still a terrible example. Lexus to Toyota is not what AMG is to Mercedes, as a business or in what they produce, but nice stab at being clever. Again you clearly took away the wrong message from my original post.

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You both misinterpreted each other. We get it.AAAADPIUk_MAAAAAAMJnjQ.jpg...or if it's easier, maybe we can find a better metaphor.

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As a side note, I mentioned the CIVA INS can't be integrated, but the vast majority of 727s just used old school (radio) nav, if I remember correctly. As an example, I believe FDX operated their 72s as old school nav*. I just figured it was worth noting for those who were wondering (which is how DF and CS modeled it).
Thanks again Kyle. Always wondered just how sophisticated the modern configuration would be. There's a DHL 727 freighter that until a few months ago was operating between Auckland (near to me) and Sydney, I'm sure they must use INS being oceanic and all, no VORs out in the deep-blue. I'll have to check out that CIVA INS, have just started reading up on the INS in the Simcheck A300, really want to get my head around it.

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You're welcome.As a side note, I mentioned the CIVA INS can't be integrated, but the vast majority of 727s just used old school (radio) nav, if I remember correctly. As an example, I believe FDX operated their 72s as old school nav*. I just figured it was worth noting for those who were wondering (which is how DF and CS modeled it).* - If you look up even a more recent FDX 722 flight plan, you'll find they file /W, meaning RVSM. E, F, G and R all mean RVSM with advanced nav (FMS/GNS/RNP), so /W just means RVSM but without the fancy new stuff.
That's right. A few FDX 72's have GPS. I was in one in Greenville/Spartanburg that happened to have a GPS equipped. It was coupled to the A/P.Also, interestingly enough, I believe the 727 is a more senior plane at FedEx (as far as FedEx goes). Mainly because it's domestic and therefore more week on/week off. That is, it's a much better schedule! Of course they're being replaced with the 757 now.

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Hey Dean,Sure! First, as an owner of the DF727 as well (bought the CS because it was native FSX and I didn't realize I could've ported the DF727), the DF727 had me spoiled, and the CS honestly didn't live up to its standard.I'll have to go back into it and rip it apart again to find all of the issues, but off the top of my head, here are a few things:-Using the default Cessna shut down and a swap to the CS727 causes issues if you turn the battery and alternator off. Pulling the mixture out also causes an issue. What happens is, on the start, you'll have battery power for as long as the battery can push current. Basically, the CS battery switch works, but the generators don't flip the GEN switch for FS, so if you flipped the ALTernator switch in the Cessna, your systems are going to die somewhere in the taxi or on departure. Most other developers tie the GEN switches in the plane to the FS GEN switches to avoid this. Furthermore, the CS727's fuel knobs on the pedestal don't control the mixture control for FS, meaning, if you shut down the default Cessna using the mixture knob, you're going to have to push it back in before loading the CS727 (or hit CTRL+SHIFT+F4 when you get in the CS727). Sure, the workarounds are easy (keyboard shortcuts to turn on the GENs and the mixture), but it detracts from the overall realism. My fuel levers in the CS727 should be flipping the fuel levers (or overriding the fuel system of FS). It's nearly an industry standard now (like the carb heat always being on in turboprops/fuel injected props, because the sim doesn't differentiate).-In addition to the GEN knobs not controlling the actual GENs in the sim, the electric phase knobs do nothing in the CS727. With the DF727, they at least work as eye candy (you have to adjust them to put the gen in phase, but it won't adversely affect the flight if you don't).-I remember some issue with the pneumatic system, where the APU didn't work as it should (as is modeled in the DF727), but I'd have to go back and check to confirm. The packs also have some quirk to them.-I also feel like the fuel system and hydraulics had some dodgy quirk, but I can't remember it off the top of my head (I'll check tonight, as in the case above).-You cannot integrate the CIVA INS to have it run the AP. The AP had some quirks as well (yes, I know it's not your standard AP, but I got it to work properly with the DF727).The rest of the aircraft is stellar. The VC and 2D pop-ups are actually reasonably well done (not NGX quality in crispness and frame friendliness), but CS is really good at getting models to look good, and it shows. Visually, it's great. If you don't mind the systems not working up to par (as in, not operating them properly still lets you slide by), then it's a perfect fit.I, however, can't deal with not having consequences for not operating the aircraft properly.Hope that helps some.
That's what i want to know, because i wish to install fsx but i love dreamfleet 727 and it's not for fsx,
I second the Dreamfleet 727. That was my second payware add on, and still a favorite. She's aged, but for the old Boeing systems she's still a decent purchase.Porting to FSX is possible (but it's clunky), and the aircraft configurator (very neat feature) causes a few issues in Windows 7 64b that can be easily fixed.
  • Sounds are good
  • FDE feels great, though roll rate seems somewhat off. I'm not type rated so take it for what it is.
  • The VC is old. 2Ds are used for the engineer's panel, but this is the only aircraft I didn't mind 2D panels
  • Systems are excellent. Fuel distribution, APU. It's all there and correct. I have a good bit of time on my school's 727 engineer seat. (Yes, we have a real working 727)

Finally, Flight1 has a great refund policy. If it's not your cup of tea, uninstall it (first) and get your refund.

WOOWW!! and do you know how to do that?

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I thought I heard Dreamfleet was working on an FSX native version of their 727. I really hope so, but as stated before, the Coolsky DC-9 might fulfill my vintage jetliner desires if its systems and FDE are up to PMDG/LDS standards.

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Dreamfleet 727sThey're not native to FSX, though. I believe it'll work in FSX, but it wasn't developed for it.
I highly second that!!! It´s a masterpeice of addon! In my eyes better than the FS9 737 by PMDG, maybe the best one for FS9 ever made.
the Coolsky DC-9 might fulfill my vintage jetliner desires if its systems and FDE are up to PMDG/LDS standards.
This one seems also to be no brainer for me. I´m currently flying the NGX all arround but with such nice old school planes arround, it´s allways nice to get a plane with a bit more "handwork" and start flying by yourselfe and not by the FMC. :(

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Do yo own the CS 727 too Zach? Be interested to hear your comparison of the two offerings.
Well, I´m not Zach but I own both. The boxed DF727 and the CS 727 X. Back in FS9 I made a lot of flights with RW schedules up and down the west coast for FDX. I memeber the LDA approach in San Diego very well, it was allways nice to get that old "fuel to noise converter" down there. The DF flew by the numbers and I never had any quirk with the systems which seemd pretty accurate. I got the CS one on their 10€ sale and haven´t really flown it till now. All I can say without a deeper look into is that the outside and VC look pretty nice, all textures reasonably sharp and good looking. I had problems with no sound in VC but after checking their forums I got that fixed. If you guys want it, I can take adeeper look into the CS 727 and try to make an comparison.

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Everything I purchased from Captain Sim I instantly regretted no matter how many additional chances I gave them. I didn't screw myself too bad though, most of the items I bought were during the Christmas $9.99 sale. But I have their 757 for both FS9 and FSX as well as the FSX 767-300. I will admit their external and internal visuals are really good (they really are that good), the rest of the plane is rubbish unfortunately. From the sound-sets sounding god awful, and having no real difference from say a GE to a RR engine. The flight dynamics feel way off the plane flies the same whether it is at MAX gross, or flying empty. I know CS isn't known to model systems very well so I won't scrutinize them over that, but basic things like needing hydraulic pressure to operate a control surface has been overlooked (you can fly the airplane with no HYD's on). When flying a CATIII approach once established on the ILS at say 2,500 feet and clicking approach mode you are supposes to get all three CMD's lit, but this does not happen until 1,500ft. The GPWS callouts are also really poorly done, easily replaceable but still the end-user shouldn't have to do this. The list goes on and I have been giving them second chances since FS9 days, I recently just gave them another, who knows how many additional chances now with their new service pack for the 767 version 1.5, and again I was let down.I really have to say, BUYER Beware on this one guys.If systems and realism is your thing, you may want to steer clear from these guys, although I do have my fingers crossed that they will make me retract my statement on their upcoming 737-100 and 200.

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The Dreamflight 727 is the only plane I miss since switching to FSX. If anyone knows how to install it into FSX I and am certain others would love to know.

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I have to join the bandwagon here, i loved the DF 727....in fsx i had an itch for old analogue iron and bought the latest cs707. Graphics and eye candy were mouthwatering, the rest poor.You can open a cockpit window in flight in about all the captain sim aircraft add ons (727, herc, 707) and nothing happens, no wind noise, external noise, drop in cabin pressure, nothing. You can start engines without fuel or bleed air in some models, and there is no such thing as a hot start. You can shut down after a long flight, restart and all engines are the same temperature, and all dials refuse to move to any other value.Another fs9 bird i miss is the Ready For Pushback 747.

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