From the BlackBox Simulation Terms & Conditions

In no case will refunds be given for software delivered online ("Electronic Delivery"). All software sold by BlackBox Simulation is delivered AS IS and BlackBox Simulation makes no warranty as to its use or performance. Chargebacks to credit cards or stop payments on checks as a means to "return" software will be construed as fraud and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

http://www.blackboxs...m/company/tandc

Yeah pmdg have the same policy. What's the big fuss?

Yeah pmdg have the same policy. What's the big fuss?

Does PMDG threaten to prosecute its customers for fraud?

I'd have to check their policy but im sure if someone attempts to get money back off of them by playing to the system then I'm sure they would probably take some form of action.

Then check and let us know if PMDG makes meaningless, unenforceable threats.

Isn't that normal? I don't download, having only intermittent acces to the internet, but surely once you have downloaded a package you can't un-download it and ask for a refund.Still, as mgh implies, it's a pretty pointless threat. £20 for software, or ££££ for a court case in which I expect the onus would be on the prosecutor to prove the defendant hadn't deleted the download.They'd be better off designing a timed trial into the download such that it erased itself if you didn't register within a specified time.D

Actually... that would be relatively easy to get into court.... because it's a criminal act, not civil.

In the EU a consumer is entitled to an unconditional refund on software that has not been "unsealed by the consumer". If downloaded software requires validation before it can be used then it is eligible for such a refund until it is validated.All purchases (even those over the internet) have to be "fit for purpose" so seeking a chargeback is not a fraud, regardless of what Blackbox construe it to be.

Then check and let us know if PMDG makes meaningless, unenforceable threats.

Actually... that would be relatively easy to get into court.... because it's a criminal act, not civil.

I highly doubt any fs "company" would even pursue legal action for a simple "refund".Even if they did pursue action, they probably would be investigated because they don't even pay taxes! :(

Edited January 31, 201214 yr by benorg

Just as the U.S. can not enforce their laws outside the country (though they seem to forget it)... the EU has zero legal authority on any company that's not physically within the EU itself.Any transaction amount below, I believe, $50 can easily be a forced transaction. If the seller forces the charge and the buyer forces a refund... guess who loses....

I highly doubt any fs "company" would even pursue legal action for a simple "refund".Even if they did pursue action, they probably would be investigated because they don't even pay taxes! :(

Don't pay taxes? Yeah... you keep believing that. :(

Actually... that would be relatively easy to get into court.... because it's a criminal act, not civil.

It would be pretty near impossible. The prosecution would have to show that, at the time of raising the chargeback, the buyer intended to keep the product regardless of the outcome. It couldn't.Even if a criminal prosection was brought after the chargeback had been made, it would still have to be proved that the buyer had retained the product. Again, that's is impossible to prove realistically - would you expect to get a warrant to search the computer?

Just as the U.S. can not enforce their laws outside the country (though they seem to forget it)... the EU has zero legal authority on any company that's not physically within the EU itself.

Blackbox is in Malta which is in the EU. It also, misleadingly, state that its Terms and Conditions are "subject to European laws."

So... it's in the EU, part of Europe... states it's T&C are subject to European laws (thus also Europe)... but they're wrong for saying it? How utterly silly.Also... your initial discussion did not indicate where the company was from... and my statement didn't either. I simply pointed out that just because one country says something... doesn't mean it applies in another country.Oh... and here in the U.S. it's relatively easy to get a case like this in court. It's a criminal act.

Its statement show that it doesn't really understand. There are no such things as "Eurpean Laws." The laws that apply are still those of the individual countries which are not harmonised.Where is the criminality in the US in asking for a chargeback?

Those terms and conditions seem normal to me... Heck, I've seen much, much crazier things than this.

True, Ariane is worse - but that's still no excuse for meaningless legal mumb-jumbo.