If I answer, you will probably not believe me.I therefore repeat:RPS asks: - "Do you think Flight will have anything to offer the Microsoft Flight Simulator hardcore – the people with simpits and hundreds of pounds’ worth of high fidelity third-party aircraft and sceneries on their HDs?"Joshua Howard said: - "Microsoft Flight leverages the best of what core fans have always loved about the franchise; there are a variety of ways to fly with better aircraft models and better graphics than ever before.It will also evolve over time through game add-ons, giving sim fans a rich experience. We’re aiming to honor the legacy of the Flight Simulator franchise while also expanding the experience to brand new audiences. It’s about growing the experience, not watering it down. Many of the hardcore beta testers tell us that once they fly in Flight (especially with the flight assists turned off), they can’t imagine going back – the authenticity of the flight model is better than it’s ever been."Joshua Howard also said: - To enable the needed improvements in performance, visuals, and new experiences, Microsoft Flight is a completely new product with an entirely new code base, architecture, toolset, and even a new distribution model."

I think you misunderstand my post. I'm working and planning on the basis that it does have a good FDE, realistic terrain and that there will be no obligation to play the game elements. I'm hoping to use it as my new GA sim, even thinking of buying a better yoke than my Saitek just to fly it.@francois - Larry may not have had the financial success he had hoped for, but he did release a visionary product onto the market. Sometimes you've got to dream a bit. @Larry, if you could find a way to work with MS and release single state size photoscenery via DLC - I think you'd have a market.

Because FSX wasn't superior to FS2k4 when it first came out.

I just come here once and a while for the rebuttle. Of course FSX was far superior to FS9.....when it first came out. I said it then, too...

Because FSX wasn't superior to FS2k4 when it first came out. Top machine back in 2006 couldn't run is smoothly. It's only now one can buy a moderatly priced machine and run FSX out the box without any tweaks but that still might not be the case. FS2000 was the same way, it ran like crap. When FS2k2 came out people flocked to it over FS2000 because the thing ran and was totally updated. When FS2k4 came out it had more refined weather and clickable virtual cockpits. FSX came out and had good graphics but that was about it outside of performance issues. What's the point in upgrading if your machine can't run the software? I have yet to buy a PC that can run FSX.Flight is not a natural upgrade to FS2k4 let alone FSX.

Dell Duo Core 2.66 1333FSBWindows 7 Pro 64Bit SP14Gigs RamNVIDIA GeForce GTS 250 w/1gig Memory

Aye

even thinking of buying a better yoke than my Saitek just to fly it.

what model of Saitek do you have now? As of now i use the pro flight yoke system , i had the Vrinsight flight master set up but sold that to a good friend of mine , before the VR yoke i had the Pfc Beech Style Yoke and after some time i traded that set up for some Flight Deck solutions parts that i need it .

Edited February 12, 201214 yr by rtodepart

what model of Saitek do you have now? As of now i use the pro flight yoke system , i had the Vrinsight flight master set up but sold that to a good friend of mine , before the VR yoke i had the Pfc Beech Style Yoke and after some time i traded that set up for some Flight Deck solutions parts that i need it .

I use the saitek proflight at present, with a generic simpit set up for the ngx. Interested in why you went the way you did - i was thinking of getting a pfc saab desktop yoke, but it'll cost $1000. Why did you go from a pfc to a plastic saitek?? Also, i must say i've been wondering today - what would a 737 column yoke be like for flying the ga aircraft in flight? That's my other option.

 

Why did you go from a pfc to a plastic saitek??

Because to be honest since i dont have the space i need i figure going to a simpler setup for some time was a better and easy way to move everything around and like i mention before i traded that set up for some Flight Deck solutions parts that i need it . hopefully when ever i move to another place with a room just for the sim stuff i will get a more expensive 737 type joke .

Also, i must say i've been wondering today - what would a 737 column yoke be like for flying the ga aircraft in flight? That's my other option.

When it comes to the column itself if you had the chance to be up on a smaller aircraft you already know the diference,so you may Feel weird but if you dont plan on building more of the 737 flight deck at a later time you may do ok for now. The reason i think it feels weird To me its becuase the 737 column setup at home feels dead since i cant feel anything compare to what it feels like in the real aircraft . I know im flying at the house but there are some times that when you get too in to the situation you are flying you expect some reactions from the aircraft that simply wont happend because you are seating in the same spot with no movement at all and thats a weird feeling , but when it comes to other guys/girls that never had the chance to hold the controls of a aircraft in flight they simply dont have nothing to compare to and they may feel good about it . Later on im going to get a column setup when ever i get the room .

Edited February 12, 201214 yr by rtodepart

Because to be honest since i dont have the space i need i figure going to a simpler setup for some time was a better and easy way to move everything around and like i mention before i traded that set up for some Flight Deck solutions parts that i need it . hopefully when ever i move to another place with a room just for the sim stuff i will get a more expensive 737 type joke .When it comes to the column itself if you had the chance to be up on a smaller aircraft you already know the diference,so you may Feel weird but if you dont plan on building more of the 737 flight deck at a later time you may do ok for now. The reason i think it feels weird To me its becuase the 737 column setup at home feels dead since i cant feel anything compare to what it feels like in the real aircraft . I know im flying at the house but there are some times that when you get too in to the situation you are flying you expect some reactions from the aircraft that simply wont happend because you are seating in the same spot with no movement at all and thats a weird feeling , but when it comes to other guys/girls that never had the chance to hold the controls of a aircraft in flight they simply dont have nothing to compare to and they may feel good about it . Later on im going to get a column setup when ever i get the room .

Understand the reasons for yoke change, but i guess i'm wondering if the pfc is not as much of an improvement on the saitek as i was expecting. Will i be disappointed by the pfc? And what was the vrinsight like? Hard to get any user experience on that one. I've only found a few opinions on the PFC and it tends to be that they're a lot more solid feeling than the saitek.I haven't ever used a column yoke in a real plane, so I found your thoughts interesting - thanks. Still not really sure just how 'weird' it would be flying a Vans with a column yoke!

they are both great yokes VR and PFC , In my case i liked the PFC better i like the way it feels in general more than the VR .Now If you ever plan on geting a CDU setup i can recommend VRI cdu .

@francois - Larry may not have had the financial success he had hoped for, but he did release a visionary product onto the market. Sometimes you've got to dream a bit.

I know ALL about dreaming. I'm a flightsim publisher ! :(

I think you misunderstand my post.

Yes Rob, I misunderstood your request. :(

Great post, Francois !People supporting Flight as a simulator seriously need a reality check. Flight is a game - it's meant as a game, it's sold as a game and it will have a fast end like a game.Now - there's nothing wrong with it being a game ! Playing games can be fun, and I probably will download Flight, fly around Hawaii a couple of hours, probably even collect a couple of coins (hooray), and put it away after that couple of hours and move on to the next game. Why ? Because like other games it lacks freedom.Let's talk about simulators ... FS9, FSX, X-Plane to name the current standards. There is freedom - absolute freedom. There is simply every aircraft available you could think of for these simulators, freeware or payware, from gliders to multi engine intercontinental jets, from ancient aircraft from the dawn of aviation to modern high tech aircraft with the most sophisticated systems and flight management computers you could imagine. And they are rendered in almost any detail or difficulty level you could think of, from simple jump-in-and-fly designs to complete and true to life systems and flight model simulations we are seeing from PMDG or A2A, to name only two. Choose as many of them as you like or your harddrive can bear. Fly them in as many colours and variants you like, or paint them yourself - your imagination is the only limit. Fly them wherever you want - from Antarctica to the north pole, from the highest mountains to endless plains, from arctic tundra to tropical swamps, from lonely bushes to the busiest hubs of aviation. Get outstanding sceneries for almost any place on this planet, freeware or payware, build sceneries yourself - again the only limit is your imagination ! Enhance immersion with addon traffic to your likes, from propliner AI of the 50s over early jets of the 70s to modern traffic using real world schedules - it's up to you ! It's available for free ! Enhance you immersion with weather addons, texture sets, afcads or sounds ! Get yourself realistic worldwide air traffic control using an addon or fly in a life and human controlled online network airspace !See what I'm talking about ? Flight simulation is amazing, exciting, a neverending adventure to explore and learn ! And all this is available for our current simulators because there are hundreds, if not thousands, of talented phantastic enthusiasts from all over the planet producing all that, for the largest part for free or in a small spare time business at best !!And now let's talk about Flight. No SDK, no community producing content. "Addons" produced by Microsoft and "selected" partners. What do you expect from them ? Microsoft is not enthusiastic about flight simulation, they are enthusiastic about making money! They have choosen this business model for Flight because they want to earn more money than they could with the present model (FS9, FSX). In order to achieve that they need to release DLC at a fast rate. Do you honestly think they wait for an addon to be perfect because they are enthusiastic about their addons ? They need to fulfil a business plan i.e. earning a given amount of profit in a given time ! E.g. PMDG delayed their outstanding 737NGX for a year because they were enthusiastic about making it even more complete, better and enjoyable ! What do you think MS tells one of their "selected partners" if they tell them they want to delay their DLC for a year to make it perfect ? "Take your time, buddies" MS will tell them ... NOT ! Expect half finished, simplified, buggy crap , because at MS the accountants will decide when an addon has to be released, not the enthusiast. There will be no high end addons, simply because a development time of 2 or 3 years for an addon will not fit in MS's business plan. Hardcore simmers will not buy addons on MS default level, and they will not buy addons on high end level because there won't be any. And they will not download freeware addons to enhance their experience because there won't be any ! So hardcore simmers will spend no money on flight because it offers nothing they want, and gamers will spend no money on flight because they will find it rather boring. What remains is a group of "casual" simmers who usually don't spend much money on a "casual" hobby (collecting coins in Hawaii does not really feel much different from collecting coins in Tasmania,anyway, and what else would you like to do on an empty planet?).MS will never reach the profit margin they hoped for and scrap the MS Flight project within a year or two.Will MS Flight be successful as a game ? I doubt it. Will it be successful as a simulator competing with or replacing FS9, FSX or X-Plane? No way !! Because it lacks EVERYTHING which makes our current simulators so worthwile !Sorry for the longish post - sometimes 2cents are simply not enough :Peace:CheersAlbert

People supporting Flight as a simulator seriously need a reality check. Flight is a game - it's meant as a game, it's sold as a game and it will have a fast end like a game.

The same thing is true with regards to FSX: It "is a game - it's meant as a game, it's sold as a game."My FSX box labels it as a "Games for Windows," and the official MS FSX site states: "Gamers and simmers of all ages and skill levels feel firsthand what it’s like to be an aviator"There is nothing wrong with my perception of reality. You should wait and try Flight when it is released on the 29th, instead of insulting everyone who views Flight as BOTH a flightsim AND a game (just like FSX is both).

Will it be successful as a simulator competing with or replacing FS9, FSX or X-Plane? No way !! Because it lacks EVERYTHING which makes our current simulators so worthwile !

I have Flight, FSX, and X-Plane 9 all installed on my PC. Right now, Flight is the simulator that I am using the most.Flight does a number of things better than both FSX and X-Plane (including XP10).And X-Plane does a number of things better than both FSX and Flight.And FSX does a number of things better than both Flight and X-Plane.Each one has its strengths and weaknesses.It is true that your options will be very limited in the Free released version of Flight, but as more DLC is released, you'll have more and more options.

Edited February 12, 201214 yr by Arwen

Albert, hopefully you feel better now you've got that off your chest...deep breaths now :)A lot of your points have been raised and raised again over the last few weeks. In general, I think the Flight community has moved on from overly focusing on non-relevant negatives (coins etc) and is trying to work out how to best use this new tool. It's not that we don't miss all the things that have been taken out...we're just looking at the glass half full.Simulators don't need to have whole world coverage and sdks - real level D sims don't have this stuff!For $0 you can give flight a try, and for $20 you can give it a good try. Microsoft is back on the field, and that is not a bad thing for flight simulation.P.s. i did laugh at you giving PMDG major kudos for delivering the NGX late. That's glass half full for you!

Edited February 12, 201214 yr by OzWhitey

The same thing is true with regards to FSX: It "is a game - it's meant as a game, it's sold as a game."

I don't think that this discussion works if you concentrate on the word game. I think the main issue are the worlds.A worldwide simulator can't work without a SDK and a community. There is no way to programm the whole world, if you have to earn money.And that's what every company HAS to do. If a few people want to land on their own, small local airport there has to be a possibility for them to add this airport, even if no one else wants to land there. Otherwise, they wouldn't use this simulator.These things can only be work with object libraries and a SDK.Payware, as well as Download content can only generate small islands (not necessarily surrounded by water, but most major airports are such islands in FSX or X-Plane. There are enough people that fly around in these islands, that a company might earn money with it.If you only concentrate on these islands, they only work locally. In thew long run you might be able to establish bigger planes, if these local islands have bigger airports, but how many people would pay several of these islands in one go? Then you will need ATC and so on.But I don't think that this will work on a bigger scale. The more locations you have, the fewer pilots would be active in the payware islands, they simply spend their time somewhere else.

The same thing is true with regards to FSX: It "is a game - it's meant as a game, it's sold as a game."My FSX box labels it as a "Games for Windows," and the official MS FSX site states: "Gamers and simmers of all ages and skill levels feel firsthand what it’s like to be an aviator"There is nothing wrong with my perception of reality. You should wait and try Flight when it is released on the 29th, instead of insulting everyone who views Flight as BOTH a flightsim AND a game (just like FSX is both).

Well, Arwen, I think I made it pretty clear what the difference for me is between the game MS Flight and the programs I consider as simulations - it's the limited environment of Flight where MS (and nobody else!) decides what and where you can fly and the basically unlimited environment the simulations like FS9 or FSX offer. Your reply that the word "game" is written on the FSX box as well is somewhat missing the point, wouldn't you agree ? Who cares what is written on the box ?And I want to make very clear that I did not insult you are anybody else, at least it was not my intention. When I say "reality check" I mean that some of the supporters here need to open their eyes to see the differences I tried to point out. And no matter what your personal preferences are in regards to flight simulation - you can't deny the differences, which are as obvious as the difference between night and day.Don't get me wrong - I am not saying that people who like MS Flight are wrong or dumb or whatnot. There is no right or wrong when it comes to personal interests. If you are happy flying around Hawaii or any other place MS might offer in the future in whatever airplane MS might offer this is perfectly fine! But you have to accept that a large number of people in a hard core flight simming community like AVSIM miss just about everything in Flight they enjoyed in every previous FS version, and I am one of them. And you have to accept that there is a big amount of frustration amongst that group to see that franchise change in such a way, just because MS in their unlimited greed does not begrudge addon developers their little income.