doom Okay folks, get a grip time is upon us

[Ben Cap 89]

Thanks Tom. I am very concerned that any potential new member who comes here, because they are interested in Flight, would hightail it outta here after reading just on or two threads.Some members are only here to ridicule Flight, along with anyone who posts anything positive about it. That type of behavior needs to end, if this community hopes to gain new members from Flight enthusiasts.

Very true. Some of the hostility around here is absurd. I think that the community as a whole should adopt some change.I understand that Flight might not be the greatest thing ever for our community; BUT, we might as well give it a chance and see what MS can do with this awesome updated base platform.

[ViperPilot 81]

We need to get a group of talented devs to create an FSX service pack. I know that their are enough smart minds out there to tackle a feat as such.... I am sure that with some creative thinking and some hardwork, a few around here could really bring some awesome modifications to our ever-dated simulator.

Ben,The smarts and creativity are definitely out there. In my mind, the question is whether or not those devs are willing to work together socially, without ego, drama and zealous greed.If a group were ever put together, and the concept made it to the planning and design stage, I would hope they would have the foresight to:1) Be sincere, monitor and utilize the suggestions that the FS Community at large might offer.2) Hire someone with a substantial amount of one on one Customer Service experience; in order to be forthcoming and update the masses with useful, honest, and real information.3) Be proactive, and have a meaningful dialogue with the FS Community through sensible communication.Will it happen? Who knows... but my question is this: with the PR nightmare that Flight has become, will the devs decide that developing a Service Pack would be worth the mental headacheof dealing with the FS Community?Alan Edited February 10, 2012 by ViperPilot

[gtrbarbarian 1]

While I admit to reading the Flight forum regularly, I can only stand it for about 3 minutes, because, it's the same stuff re-hashed over and over. It doesn't offend me, it just bores me.That said, I agree with many of the negative thoughts about what we know about Flight, while trying to take a positive "wait and see" mentality. Really, I'm just bored and no longer care; what will be will be. It is what it is. I'm hoping that MS pulls its head out of its...cloud and decides to release an SDK or eventually take Flight a step farther (into FSXI territory; really nobody can predict where this product will go). I'm not holding my breath though.I will say that I believe in free speech, and that new users to Flight will be able to separate the wheat from the chaff, and if they can't , well that's a great life skill to learn! So people should not be barred from speaking their minds, good or bad.I also don't believe people are cutting Microsoft off at the knees. Their complete lack of an understanding of product community and general PR skills did that nicely to themselves.

Edited February 10, 2012 by gtrbarbarian

[Lawyer+Pilot 126]

I will say that I believe in free speech, and that new users to Flight will be able to separate the wheat from the chaff, and if they can't , well that's a great life skill to learn! So people should not be barred from speaking their minds, good or bad.

Exactly. People are just way too sensitive. It's precisely this kind of fervor that fuels development. If the drone mentality was as pervasive as some would like, I dare say we would all be flying wire framed airplanes on the Commodore 64. And, incredibly, we'd all be ever so content about it.

I also don't believe people are cutting Microsoft off at the knees. Their complete lack of an understanding of product community and general PR skills did that nicely to themselves.

Another +1. MS can throw together a team of beta testers with ease, but it's completely inept when it comes to managing its product message.

[Arwen 289]

Exactly. People are just way too sensitive. It's precisely this kind of fervor that fuels development. If the drone mentality was as pervasive as some would like, I dare say we would all be flying wire framed airplanes on the Commodore 64. And, incredibly, we'd all be ever so content about it.

I'll admit that I can be too sensitive. But I've had to fight my entire life just to have a semblance of a "normal" life. So, no matter what the odds are, I never give up (I do need take some time off occasionally, just to keep my sanity).My PC games (which includes flightsims) are something that I have grown up with. And there were times in my life when I wasn't able to do much at all physically, so they kept me going (by keeping me from dwelling on my physical limitations). I came back to the AVSIM forums late last year, after I became interested in Flight. I came here to learn and to share my enthusiasm. I did NOT expect to have every single thing that I post ripped apart, or to be ridiculed for my opinions. I have language issues, so it is very difficult for me to put my thoughts into words (I can only think in images, so I have to pretty much translate my thought-images into words, which is a slow process). This is why I have to edit nearly every post I make.There is a difference between free speech and verbal attacks. Some of you here have ganged up on anyone who tries to post anything positive about Flight, and in doing so, you have limited the free speech of others (especially of new members, who may not be as stubborn as me), by creating a hostile environment. Edited February 10, 2012 by Arwen

[gtrbarbarian 1]

I have language issues, so it is very difficult for me to put my thoughts into words

Well you are far more eloquent than many posters on these boards...well thought out statements with reasons for why you feel that way...keep doin' what you're doin'...

[Mikrco 0]

I agree completely Arwen,Enough is enough. Time to welcome new people into Flight and AVSIM.Kind regards,

Couldn't agree more. I think most of the negative comments come from cutting pasting old threads about FSX in it's begining-they're just changing them from FSX to Flight. They were wrong then and they're wrong now. FS Flight has multiple opportunities to excell.

[StamPilot 4]

I totally agree. FLIGHT is not for me, but perhaps it draws a lot of teens and twenty-somethings into the hobby. After they get a bit bored, THEY will start pestering MS for ATC, detailed systems, access to the whole world, etc...

Well said! Although I'll stay with my FSX and tons of addons I have, I still believe FLIGHT will be of some use.

[n4gix 4,954]

You may well be the ONLY one that does! I have already recieved hate PM's that call into question my birth status... :(

No Tom, he's by no means the only one who does. In fact, I wrote much the same thing just the other day. I'm assuming that no one actually read my eloquent plea for some peace and quiet, since I've received no mail, PM's at all either yay or nay......not even any "HATE" mail... :(

[newthog 0]

No Tom, he's by no means the only one who does. In fact, I wrote much the same thing just the other day. I'm assuming that no one actually read my eloquent plea for some peace and quiet, since I've received no mail, PM's at all either yay or nay......not even any "HATE" mail... :(

Allow me to correct that - you had a great post! Now, I wouldn't go as far as "eloquent", but it was nicely stated!no idea how to do smiley face icon...

[torium 207]

There is a difference between free speech and verbal attacks. Some of you here have ganged up on anyone who tries to post anything positive about Flight, and in doing so, you have limited the free speech of others (especially of new members, who may not be as stubborn as me), by creating a hostile environment.

Arwen - I appreciate your good analysis and positive views on development opportunities!Keep posting. :(

[SamYeager 245]

Tom - I appreciate the intentions that prompted you to start this thread. However there seems to be such a head of steam from various posters to bury Flight and laud FSX and any other offering that is not Flight that I'm afraid it will just fall on stony ground.Once Flight is offically released those against Flight are bound to find even more that they don't like and post in exhaustive and all too frequent detail what's wrong with Flight as far as they are concerned. l'm starting to think that I might as well give this forum a miss for a few months (3 - 6 months?) until it has hopefully calmed down. Even then I'm not sure it will be enough time. :(

[Tom Allensworth 1,532]

However there seems to be such a head of steam from various posters to bury Flight and laud FSX and any other offering that is not Flight that I'm afraid it will just fall on stony ground.

There have been and we have removed them or their posting privileges. We will do the same thing to those that push the limit. As we always say in these instances, we are not going to let a minority ruin the experience here for everyone else.And I will request this one more time... If you feel a post is inflammatory or a personal attack, hit the REPORT button. We will look into it and deal with it as appropriate. Also, I encourage everyone to once again read our Terms of Service (little link down at the bottom of every forum page).

[newthog 0]

Tom - I appreciate the intentions that prompted you to start this thread. However there seems to be such a head of steam from various posters to bury Flight and laud FSX and any other offering that is not Flight that I'm afraid it will just fall on stony ground.Once Flight is offically released those against Flight are bound to find even more that they don't like and post in exhaustive and all too frequent detail what's wrong with Flight as far as they are concerned. l'm starting to think that I might as well give this forum a miss for a few months (3 - 6 months?) until it has hopefully calmed down. Even then I'm not sure it will be enough time. :(

"All it takes for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing" - probably misquoted and WAY more dramatic than it needs to be (sounds like some posts!) but stick around - this forum needs optimistic views to balance things out a bit...

[JonP01 104]

You can go into the settings and hide posts by obnoxious members to protect yourself from the initial blast but there is no way to protect yourself from all the fallout.

It is an unfortunate limitation of forum software that despite ignoring other selected user's posts, if they are subsequently qouted by other users you are going to read their original posts anyway. I am now using a "skimming" approach. The trolls are easy to remember, so as soon as I see the name, I now just gloss over the post till I get to the next one.