@ apilotx

[wb5okj 26]

Good morning apilotx,A quick question, is there any way to put missing lakes back into the scenery, I am missing several important lakes in the Oklahoma City, OK area. Not a huge problem, but would be really nice to have the missing large lakes. Fortunately the two most important lakes are there, so this isn't a gripe just for informational purposes. :smile:Thanks in advance.

[alpilotx 505]

Nope, lakes are encoded in the base mesh, and meddling with the base mesh is one of the elusive things that nobody really dares to do (nor should do). Thing is, this all comes from OpenStreetmap. So, if the lakes are missing (or were missing when we grabbed their data!), then they are - of course - not in the scenery. The best way to proceed here is, to go end edit/improve the OSM raw data first hand, and then, in all upcoming Global Scenery re-renders it will be included. AND this way, your extra work doesn't become obsolete .... would you only edit the DSF directly, it would be lost as soon as we re-cut the DSFs based on new data, new tech, new what ever ,,,Ben blogged about this here:http://developer.x-p...sm-and-vectors/And the water topic is covered - more or less :-) - in my interview too:http://xplane10.word...n-mr-x-terrain/Good night ;-)

Edited February 13, 2012 by alpilotx

[VegaSS 2]

Which are missing? dirtybird? Drapper? Overholster? :(

[wb5okj 26]

Which are missing? dirtybird? Drapper? Overholster? :(

I've got Overholser and Hefner, which makes KPWA, my home port easy to find, Missing Arcadia, Draper and Thunderbird.

[w9nwrwi 26]

Its fairly easy in OSM to update their maps, once you get the hang of it. I made 4 Wisconsin lakes (probably 10,000 more to go) yesterday and they showed up this morning.3 of the 4 came out fine, one I have to go back and redo one. .Its really all about their Edit function and just tracing a lake outline. Just make sure you zoom down far enough to get a good view of the area in question.The nice thing is that we can all help update those maps to make our XPX scenery all the better.Chuck

[wb5okj 26]

Good morning W9wrw,Thanks for the suggestion, could you go into a bit of detail about how this is done? Do ou jus outline and export? What do you do after you get the osm data to get it into X-Plane?PM me if you could with some of the details.73's

Edited February 14, 2012 by wb5okj

[greggerm 312]

I can jump in on some of the OSM editing - I think it's important enough not to have it only in a PM, because it can help anyone add information to the OSM databases.OpenStreetMaps uses several methods for getting your edits into the system.Using their website and "Potlatch"...If you visit http://www.openstreetmap.org, you will see several tabs above the map - one of which is Edit. You will need to create a free account with OSM in order to perform edits, but once you do, you will have access to edit nearly everything on the map... streets, points of interests, and of course, adding/editing water bodies. The "Potlatch" editor underlays a Bing aerial photo of the region you are editing, and you can add in the ponds, lakes, and reservoirs you need and want. You are adding data directly to the OSM database when you do this... once you're done editing, you can theoretically head to the OSM map viewer and see your changes! There is often a few minutes delay before you see your work, as they OSM map rendering engine doesn't refresh all zoom levels at once. The good news is if Laminar Research took a data snapshot at that instant, your changes would be included.Keep in mind that OSM is of course not just for X-Plane use... it is a robust, worldwide map database which is used by all sorts of applications and systems. Any edits you make should always be in the interest of accuracy and should keep with the general standards which OSM uses (*which are fairly basic, don't be intimidated by the statement). Consider any edits you are doing to be for the good of OSM itself... not necessarily for your personal enjoyment in X-Plane.As you get more proficient, interested, and addicted to adding and correcting elements in OpenStreetMap, you can then move on to a dedicated map editing tool...Editing using Java OpenStreetMap Editor (aka: JOSM)This is my tool of choice. ( http://josm.openstreetmap.de ) It's quicker and easier for someone who has a passing familiarity with how to work with OSM to use these tools. I've added in dozens of good size water bodies in my local area which were not in OSM using this tool. I've also corrected and "enhanced" shorelines with more data points, added and corrected rivers, and other points of interest. With JOSM, you basically download a small set of map data to your computer, make edits against that data, then upload it back to OSM. (*again, using a Bing aerial photo as your guide)Getting the data into X-Plane...For better or worse, you don't. You are at the mercy of Laminar to recreate the DSF files for your local region, taking with it the updates you may have placed into OSM. There is no current tool available to give a user the ability to do this work, and while the source code for the tools may be available soon, it is not a trivial task. I believe the files in X-Plane not only contain the roads and water data from OSM, but also elevation and landclass usage from other sources. It was a step forward selecting OSM as the data source, but it was at the expense of easy end-user editing of the in-game scenery. (*I don't know how easy it was in past versions).I'm probably 6 months to a year away from considering X-Plane 10 for my use for various reasons, but I've been enhancing my local area in OSM since the moment I learned it was a driving force in XP's scenery layout. It's my hope that by the time XP rises to meet my expectations, they will have also been able to cut in a new set of OSM data and all the work I've put into the local region will be shown. I also hope that a user tool will be made available so that we can do just what you want - update OSM, and move the data immediately into the sim... but that might be a long way off.If anything, Laminar's selection of OSM for data has certainly given me (and hopefully you!) a good reason to update, add, and enhance the data for our local areas. It's strangely addicting, I must say. I've always been a map geek, and being able to participate in making a map better is fun. I keep coming back for more to see what I missed and what I can add....There's lots of online resources to read and learn what/how to edit - it's not difficult, especially if you have an interest in making it better!Good luck!-Greg

[w9nwrwi 26]

Good morning W9wrw,Thanks for the suggestion, could you go into a bit of detail about how this is done? Do ou jus outline and export? What do you do after you get the osm data to get it into X-Plane?PM me if you could with some of the details.73's

Hello Don,Greg (thanks Greg) did an superb job of explaining the edit function and how it will be used. Take Gregg's info, go to OSM and poke around a bit, there arelot of help files but they are intense, or so it seems to me.The good news is that when your editing there is a UNDO tab, that will allow you do go back point by point if you make a mistake.When you first go to the site you can use Shift and Left mouse click(hold) / drag to quickly get to your point of interest, or just double click on your points and itwill zoom in. The map will probably start in Europe, just mouse drag it over.Try a couple of small edits you can always change them or for that matter nothing is firm until you hit the SAVE tab.It will ask you to note what the item is your invoking, lake, river, building, park, etc. etc. but its all available in pull down tabs.If you need help do post back of course.73ChuckW9NWR

[wb5okj 26]

Thanks a bunch Greg,this is exactly what I needed to know. all the lakes prefaced above are currently in OSM, so I guess I will have to wait for Laminar to update my area. Since this area is considered relatively flat and uninteresting to most people that don't live here it will probably be a while.The elevation and mesh data for my area is actually very well represented in X-Plane 10, a small canyon located just SE of KGOK is actually there and can be seen as you fly over it, I have flown over this area numerous time in setting up for RnWy 17, going over this in Real World, one always gets a significant drop here, :( I don't actually get a drop in the sim, but it is nice to be able to see it. :smile:I am currently at Flagstaff Az. and it is snowing, the snow is well represented in X-Plane 10.Thanks Chuck, yes I should have added a very big THANKS to Greg for his excellent post. I meant too, so will do so now. I have poked around OSM some, so will do more in the future.73's to both of youWB5OKJ

Edited February 14, 2012 by wb5okj

[IAmThWlfMan 0]

Wow, Thunderbird, Draper, and Arcadia?? MISSING?? Those are significant landmarks.. Tinker wont look right if Draper and Thunderbird isn't at the end.. Hope the North Canadian snakes through the city.. Another body of water that may be nice is the one by the zoo..

Edited February 14, 2012 by IAmThWlfMan

[jasonX 24]

Hmm thanks for all that info on OSM editing. I think I might start getting my hands dirty and get some work done there too.

[w9nwrwi 26]

Don,Take a look at the Flagstaff area, around Our Lady of Guadalupe School, around West Route 66/South Metz walk. You will see some blocks thatindicate buildings. If you Exported that area (EXPORT tab in OSM) and built that area using OSM2XP (a few mouse clicks) and then dump into XP--X Custom Sceneryyou would see those buildings as you fly over them. This is a whole other ball game. The European folks have really done some work in that area.Take a look at Paris, whew! A guy could go nuts here, 5 meg here, 5 meg there, pretty soon you have a Terabyte!How all this extra scenery affects the loading of XPX when its first booted up for flying I do not know, maybe Alpioltx can inform us.This is great fun!73Chuck

Hmm thanks for all that info on OSM editing. I think I might start getting my hands dirty and get some work done there too.

Great Jason, it all helps.Chuck

[Muskoka 104]

Here's a couple screen shots of Toronto, Ontario after a few days of editing the data in OSM. Visually quite a difference. All I did was edit the OSM data to reflect real world building heights, added buildings where they were missing, and cleaned up the bad data. It's far from finished, lots more to do on Toronto alone, but already a great improvement.Default XPX with - objects insane.Osm edited data added - objects insane.ps. The really tall building is the CN Tower, if anyone is good at modeling, Toronto needs a proper tower.GlenEdit: Couple more shots from the lakeside....Default XPXOsm added

Edited February 14, 2012 by Muskoka

[rojantrojan 17]

Thanks Greg for the explanation on OSM editing. Makes me want to dive in and try it myself. You don't work for Open Street Map marketing department do you? Lol.CheersRhydian

[greggerm 312]

Since you mentioned Wisconsin was missing some lakes, I thought about what areas near me might have a lot of water bodies... Maine sprung to mind.I took a look in OSM, and holy heck there was a fraction of the lakes and ponds represented in OSM as there are in real life. Any Maine XPlane'ers will be disappointed, as the base map is missing so much. Since then, though, I've been dropping in lake after lake, pond after pond, up in the great state of Maine. They are such an integral feature of the Maine landscape that they really do deserve to be there. There's no way I'll be able to do anywhere near all of them, but at least more are now getting into the map.This type of exercise helps to underscore how important regular data updates might be with regards to OSM data. Since OSM can easily be missing standout and landmark water bodies and roads, here's to hoping that regular updates can be done against OSM for XPlane's use.-Greg