Hi,I have just heard that Microsoft has cancelled train sim 2, due to "business objectives".Could this have any bearing on the next Flight sim?.Could this lead to a "dumbed" down flight sim to appeal to more people?.Could microsoft be looking at pulling out of the sim market all together?.DiscussCheersDan.

I'm just guessing, but here are the factors I see...1. FS moves many orders of magnitude more boxes than TS did.2. FS is a mature product with a mature community. TS was a 1.0 with only limited third-party support (relatively).3. TS was developed by a third party and only branded by MS. FS is developed in-house.4. The train simulator market is much smaller and less defined than flight simulation.At the time TS came out, they were pretty much the only thing in town. Now, Auran have released two train sims with huge community support - their game structure is much more "open" for third-party development. Further, Auran have announced plans for a third title that would take on TS head-on. MS aren't going to stay in a market unless they can "win". They've proven the ability to win and maintain with FS, but not with TS.So, no, I don't think this will have ANY impact on FS.Further, I doubt MS would "dumb down" FS for this simple reason: They're constantly pushing how realistic it is AND how it can be used for (limited) real-world flight instruction. If they dumbed it down they couldn't claim either of those things.

If true, it is a pity they abandoned T-Sim 2. I have T-S 1, and still enjoy it today....I've never taken FS2006 for granted. If we really want a stellar, state of the art sim, then I feel Microsoft would have to almost start from scratch--dropping support for all the formats which have helped create the add-on industry. Some people have invested thousands in add-ons. Would they be willing to start over? And if not, would Microsoft decide that a large portion of the market was gone and thus the base to support a new release gone as well?It's always a tough road to follow--to make MSFS sell, one has to keep its appeal broad--not just to the enthusiasts here, but also to those who say "What would it be like to fly over my house?" Those in the latter set usually don't care about ATC or cockpit drill--they just want eye candy and if their house isn't there, they move on to the next "shoot 'em up". Much as we hate to admit it, that's what most of the buyers tend to be of MSFS and Microsoft has done a remarkable job of walking the fine line between something that appeals to just about everyone.-John

I got bored ot TS because I found it a little too difficult to create addons for it.The route creation tool was a pain in the neck.The routes I really wanted to make were a few lines of the NYC Subway System, which is impossible because TS doesn't support subterranean routes and stations.

>The routes I really wanted to make were a few lines of the NYC>Subway System, which is impossible because TS doesn't support>subterranean routes and stations.Why not just close your eyes in between stations! :D :D Seriously though, if true, this news will have no bearing on FS. I am confident that we will see FS2006 (hopefuly!)

Dark Moment opinion (uneducated and speculative):MS Flight Simulator is the biggest selling "game" ever, and will increase that market share owing to its increasing sophistication.MS Train Simulator was a commercial failure, and thus does not merit further development. Period."I may not always be right, but I'm never ever wrong." - Anon.Mark "Dark Moment" Beaumonthttp://www.swiremariners.com/newlogo.jpg

I think train sim just did not haver a large enough consumer base.I hardly think this has anything to do with flightsim. Microsoft would be crazy to drop flight sim

"MS Flight Simulator is the biggest selling "game" ever, and will increase that market share owing to its increasing sophistication"I would like to see the sales figures for FS compared to the top selling Xbox game.In the past months MS has seemingly but more emphasis on its Xbox console, this latest news only confirm this to me, they are moving away from a "niche" product, and probably concentrating on more mass market products.Does this mean FS is a "big" enough product for MS to continue its development?, is FS a mass market product or is it still a niche product?.Will MS produce a "dumbed" down Xbox version to try and bring it into the mainstream?.I don't know, but for me I certainly hope the continue their current development of FS.I can gauge how mainstream FS is by peoples reaction when I say that FS is my hobby, I gauge it on how shocked they look and how hard they search for my anorak!!!, and they are still shocked and are still searching for that anorak."MS Train Simulator was a commercial failure, and thus does not merit further development. Period."I don't belive this to be totally true, not a scientific test by a long shot, but a quick search on the net shows that in the month of July 2001, FS was at number 6 in the sales charts, where as TS was at number 12, hardly a failure?.I just don't think that TS "fits" with the image that MS want to portray anymore, does FS?I for one still have TS on my HDD, and still use it, its a great stress reliever!!!.CheersDan.

>Could this lead to a "dumbed" down flight sim to appeal to more >people?.>Could microsoft be looking at pulling out of the sim market all >together?.I've never tried the train sim and to be honest, the concept never really has appealed to me. I've never really got my kicks from driving trains. However, *building* railways is another matter - I absolutely love it. I've had Transport Tycoon Deluxe once upon a time and that was fun. I've never tried the railroad tycoon games but solving all those little problems such as matching supply & demand, improving traffic flowa and simply "watching the trains" has always caught my appeal.When it comes to railways, I think there are more wannaby transport engineers out there than wannaby train drivers - one of the reasons why model railways are still very popular.Flightsimming I think won't be affected my MS's decision to pull out. Completely different league to trainsimming.Anthony Dyer

I think that Train Simulator 2 if cancelled as of right now or the past months is just temporarly. If Kujo got out of the business of the train-sim and or Microsoft dropped Kujo for some reason or another they would have to build a whole new product to protect themselves from anti-pircacy issues so this would take some time. I wouldn't really consider Train Simulator a looser, maybe it just needs some more modern technology like FS2004 to get it going again. Perhaps making it easier to use for the route editor, and making a actual calender year like fs has had since the past 3 versions. Train-sim only has winter, spring, summer and fall and not actual dates of the year. I think if the product was simply improved over the first one it would have alot of potential. I for one have TS 1 and I still like it but I have found it lacking in the amount of freight cars you can get, and there seems to be only train-sim.com to get your downloads. With flight Simulator there seems to be numerous websites with airliners, General aviation etc. etc. to choose from. I don't think this will effect fs2006 in any shape or form. In fact I would say almost count on fs2006 by late next year, and perhaps 75% bet that Microsoft will create a "all New Simulator" for trains sometime in the future. Just my opinion.Does anyone have a tell microsoft email of the train-simulator like they have with fs2006? If so this would be a good time to tell microsoft what we think about train-sim as well as flight-sim.

Microsoft buys what it wants. When it gets threatened, or wants to enter a market, they just buy the companies that compete. Auran is a tiny company that MS could simply belch and buy. Suspect it has more to do with the size of the market and the age of the fan base.Trains do not enjoy a computer savvy base of players who will upgrade hardware to play a 55 dollar game. flightsim heads do that all the time. Also a lot of train folks are spending money on model railroading.I however am very disappointed to hear this. I took MSTS off my PC a while ago because I didnt have time to devote to two sims...and MSTS was a more limited platform. However since that time, a lot has been done to build new trains, and new equipment etc.Eric

I always had hopes some day that the two would merge. I'd love to be able to see a freight train meandering through a mountain pass while flying. Of course, I also want to merge Combat Flight sim into it...so I can strafe it!Eric

Maybe MS will sell FS. They sold Asheron's Call, which I play, and it was a really positive move for the players. Maybe we'll put together an Avsim conglomerate and buy it out. We could add scenery like hot poodles washing up in the waves....billg

Hi, Could this have any bearing on the next Flight sim?.Could this lead to a "dumbed" down flight sim to appeal to more people?.Could microsoft be looking at pulling out of the sim market all together?.No,No, No and forget about Xbox.ThanksChris Willis[link:fsw.simflight.com/FSWMenuFsSim.html]Clouds And Addons For MsFs

Well it once again, I have to laugh at people who for one moment think that MS would pull out of the simulation market. For those of you that don't go to the AVSIM conferences you may have these misgivings. MS owns the flight simulation business and it is very profitable, that is what rules in the corporate world. MS will never release the numbers, no company would either, but when a title sells in the hundred of thousands, many times over at wholesale price about 80% below retail, it does not take a genius to know you are talking about many millions of dollars for FS. For one moment do you think that the "number" guys at MS would have brought on all the versions it has over the years, I think NOT!!!!MS Games Studio is a very "HOT" market, FS sells in numbers worldwide that would just make us all blush. Train Simulator was a nich market that appealed to a very small audience.When I was in Redding this past fall, I asked the MS folks that were there, how much MS pays to Flight Simulator, they laughed and asked do you think MS employs hundreds of folks in the MS Game Studio for nothing? MSFS is a "flagship" MS product, nothing more needs to be said, I got the hint.Folks, fret not, MS again loves this market, and us "nuts" are only a SMALL part of the big picture.CheersBob