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jcomm

Openmindness...

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Daily I poll mainly Avsim and another mandatory site - Xplanes'10 Blog, run by Simmo, one of our forum members.

 

Being originaly designed with XPlane in mind, and being Simmo a very active XPlane user, he is allways ready to add links, info, movies, shots, whatever to other simulation platforms worth the mention.

 

Soon after MS FLIGHT's release Simmo started posting news about "our" sim, and todays posts include great shots and movies :-)

 

Thx Simmo for being the way you are, not tied to a fanatic oppinion/blind criticism, and for giving us a great Blog to poll everyday, even if, just like me, we ar not xplane users...

 

http://xplane10.wordpress.com/

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Nice review so far. I would like to hear more in depth on your impressions of the flight models, weather and etc but good on you for being open minded enough to look at it for what it is, and for being brave enough to step right up front and take the flack.

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as an XP10 user also, nice blog indeed.

 

I find it funny that even though his blog is XP based , he still takes the time to look at and even promote other sims, unlike some on this forum who think Flight is the be all/end all and all other sims pale in comparison, oh the hypocrisy, LOL.

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as an XP10 user also, nice blog indeed.

 

I find it funny that even though his blog is XP based , he still takes the time to look at and even promote other sims, unlike some on this forum who think Flight is the be all/end all and all other sims pale in comparison, oh the hypocrisy, LOL.

 

Who says that? I can't think of a single poster here who hasn't commented on some improvement Flight desperately needs.

 

Got any names? I am curious.

 

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Who says that? I can't think of a single poster here who hasn't commented on some improvement Flight desperately needs.

 

Got any names? I am curious.

 

I would be fascinated as well......

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I find it funny that even though his blog is XP based , he still takes the time to look at and even promote other sims, unlike some on this forum who think Flight is the be all/end all and all other sims pale in comparison, oh the hypocrisy, LOL.

 

I'd also like to know whom you are talking about because I also think you are very mistaken.

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He could, for instance, be talking about me :-) because, reading my own posts, it may sound as if MS FLIGHT is the only simulator for me and the rest is pure crap...

 

Well, if it looks like so, and as far as I am concerned, I would like to say that I keep an eye on XPlane10, on DCS p-51 and even on Prepar3D (should some miracle happen there or with FSX...). I also like CondorSoaring although I never started it again since I got really involved with MS FLIGHT, SilentWings and ELITE v8. I like to use ELITE mainly because of the parametric accuracy of it's flight/engine/systems models, and the excellent IFR training capabilities, although I don't believe I will ever get an IFR rating, or even a powered aircraft license (closest I got to it was when I started my instruction for ULM on an airplane that crashed and killed one of the pilots 3 months later... Meanwhile I also had given up because I realised I couldn't afford it... and I somehow find gliders to be the safest type of aircraft in the World!!!! ans the Ultralight probably the opposite, with those "aviation" engines powering them...).

 

Back to the mater - I may sound like someone who can't give a chance to other simulation platforms, but, believe me, that's not the case! On the other hand, I must confess that the thruth IS that I really never came accross any other simulator that could give me a closer to real sensation of flying, feeling the aircraft and the environment around it, dealing with the winds/gusts/etc... like MS FLIGHT, and neither have I ever been able to use a simulator with such fluidity for the level of detail it gives me (more than sufficient for me...).

 

Going back to FSX + a ton of add-ons I would have to invest in is simply not possible. I installed it for the last time when I bought an Aerosoft glider. It was a very good model, and I even bought a great weather injector for glider flying in FSX. My idea was to later get a good scenery for my flying areas in Portugal and use it for emmergency trainning, and leisure when not able to fly for real... Problem was, I soon realized I would have to spend hundreds to get near what I was looking for, tweak a LOT, get my hands back on Manfred's compiler :-), etc..., and in the end, find the same flight dynamics I knew so well from the past...

 

I would like to have more aircraft with cockpit in MS FLIGHT

I would like to have the chance to edit weather settings

I would like to be able to to use the NDBs

I would like to have ATIS

I wouild even like to have additional weather features, such as thermals and slope winds modelled

 

But! Just as it is, MS FLIGHT is still the one sim that makes me feel like I am really flying :-) Just that!

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some on this forum who think Flight is the be all/end all and all other sims pale in comparison, oh the hypocrisy, LOL.

 

LOL - they'd be wrong then..Coz it most certainly isn't!

 

I think lots of users who post here, with the notable execption of JC above, still use and love FSX..That's why there's so much comparison with it!

 

I think some people mistake positivity and open-mindedness, as stated by JC in his very good post above, for fanaticism..Just expressing a positive attitude and a willingness to continue using a product, notwithstanding its shortcomings, is not hypocritical. It is being open-minded, just as JC says. It is also OK, no matter what anyone else may want to think, or try and tell you.

 

DLC is the future of ALL published software; just asd cloud-based services are taking over my world, too. If you do9n't like it; stick with what you know. If you take a punt, you may be pleasantly suprised down the line at how it will have enhanced, not detracted from, our hobby...

 

Jeez, we all use non-finished, sub-standard product every day at work and at home in Windows and OS X. Our cars have recalls; our electronic goods fall short and we have to RMA or return them..We still continue to use them without ridiculing or singling out other users for their slavish devotion (my term)

 

I have already broken my own embargo by even replying, but it seems with the release of AK, we are sliding back into the polarised camps again..can't we all just respect each others' right to like what we want, how we want it?

 

tea-cosy's back on heads..

 

Loving FLIGHT and FSX and P3d (and not scared to be ridiculed for my support of FLIGHT, shallow as it may be)

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I like how some of us feel like we are 'coming out' of our closets when voicing our enjoyment of Flight!

 

Hey Jake and other J- you both look like experienced real life pilots. For a non-pilot like me, tell us what it is about Flight that you like, especially re. It's feeling of flight. I've really enjoyed Xplane's feeling of flying in an organic, moving airflow. I find Flight more stable, yet it still has a strong feeling of flight and a bit of unpredictability, with every landing a challenge. Here comes trouble- thats why I never got hooked on FSX, it felt too artificial, no real physics involved.

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Simmo,

 

I have tried to identify exactly what made MS FLIGHT such a positive experience so far for me. I have allways been very critic about each and every simulator I used, so, being MS FLIGHT a game-oriented platform, why did it attract me this way (I sometimes ask myself...)

 

I believe it is a mix of:

 

- The flight model being spot on for the type of aircraft modelled. The inertia, the prop effects (even if that slipstream effect is still not up to my wishes, still translating more into roll than into yaw as it should...), things that finally got modelled in a way I couldn't find on previous versions of this sim including the best add-ons such has the Power/VS relationship, uncoordinated flight, even the stall "performance" of some models.

 

- The visuals overall, the airplane graphics, the shadows, the scenery (even if limited in some aspects)

 

- The weather effects, with those remarkable wind gusts/updrafts/downdrafts that keep us rather busy specially with the new weather themes and, associated to this, the ground handling under windy conditions, which has finally been addressed by MS in FLIGHT and feels more realistic now than in any of the other sims (MSFS all versions + XPlane all versions), and since my other sim - ELITE - is a joke regarding ground handling, it's easy to satisfy me when comparing....

 

From someone who flies gliders, a glider would naturaly become a wanted addition to the DLCs :-)

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Hi Simmo,

 

Pilot, yes. Experienced, not yet. Lots of right-seat/back-seat in GA (and even a couple of right-seat flights in a Falcon Jet - no, not an F-16 LOL)

 

There are plenty of x00hr pilots in here. They say the FD is "accurate". I am only flying the Maule now, as I too am doing a"tour" of AK and the Maule just seems "right" for it.

 

I agree with all that JC has said above. I have never flown in a Maule (but would love to now) I have flown a Piper Warrior in windy conditions down here in Bomo, and had to do a crabby 25kt landing (c. 10kt x-wind component - looking out of the side window at the RWY; scared witless, but came through it fine) and I will say that FLIGHT does handle dirty air very well..To me (ymmv) I think it does it "righter" than FSX, but I am not an expert!

 

I've been doing a lot of "dual flights" in the Maule in both FSX and FLIGHT, and am surprised by the difference in handling between the two. One is undoubtedly "better" and more "accurate" than the other. From my very limited experience (and never having flown a Maule), I would say FLIGHT had it down very well..certainly the feeling of jitteryness that flying a small bit of wood and steel in wind gives you..The feeling of being in control of a skittish, light aircraft is great...I think there are physics involved in FSX, and edited FDE can sometimes add an extra bit of realism (as can REXE/ASE etc) but as with you, I find FLIGHT that much better at making me feel I am flying a light aircraft..

 

Shame we can't mix the two as Raymar said....

 

However, and harking back to JC's post about how FLIGHT can help one to FLY (which I stayed out of LOL) the biggest thing about both FLIGHT and FSX that ppl forget when making comparisons with RW flying (I think the only person so far to mention it is Chock - sorry if that's wrong) is the MOVEMENT. I have been flying sims since the Atari ST days, and when my missus bought me a trial flight at EGHH, I jumped at it.

The usual boll***s from me about how many hours in a sim I had etc..he was quite ok about all that, but, as he warned me, it was the actual movement in 3d space that gets you (got me anyway)..You are moving. All the time. Up and down; left and right; backwards and forwards..Then he said "look what this tiny aircraft can do" and proceeded to do a roll-out and dive over the Purbecks. Nearly lost my lunch. for real LOL.

 

EZDOK has gone a bit of the way to inducing that suspension of disbelief in FSX, but it still gets me, to this day, when I've been in FLIGHT or FSX for a week or two and I go and get into a small AC, how totally different it is...I don't think any non-motion sim can ever convey that...

 

As for the rest of it, as JC says, the light and shadow is wonderful (but then so is FSX with SHADE - but different) I think the scenery, bald as some of it is (Isn't AK as well?) is better than large parts of UTX Alaska (which I think cost me c. £28) The usual gripes apply (won't list them here)

 

I know ppl are bored of hearing it, but it cost £10. I can't even get a curry for that where I live. I don't see how anyone can complain. If it cost the same as an ORBX scenery I could understand...

 

The basic premise I think is great: Let's get a whole new generation of ppl into flying. If only MSGS were that altruistic..As we all know, money talks, bull-dust walks...I get the impression (prolly totally wrong) that FLIGHT did start off s FSX11 but was "hobbled" by the marketing dept long ago..round about the time when MSGS stopped returning 3pd's calls..Shame..Still..the framework is there now..Even if it becomes abandonware after a few years I expect it will be hacked into and "enhanced" if MSGS don't open it up before then..they'll need to squeeze the pips a bit more before that happens, I reckon :wink:

 

I haven't played XP for ages..Like FLIGHT and FSX, I don't think they all compare well or fairly. I seriously hate the UI in XP (I work in IT; a good UI is everything, believe me LOL) and I didn't like the approach to scenery/airports..Still, I wouldn't go so far as to go to the XP forums and start trashing it, as some XP users did/still do over here and at Steam LOL

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Even if it becomes abandonware after a few years I expect it will be hacked into and "enhanced" if MSGS don't open it up before then..they'll need to squeeze the pips a bit more before that happens, I reckon :wink:
Even if people managed to somehow hack Flight and make a way to add third party addons to it still to create those third party addons developers would need SDK from Microsoft.

 

 

Flight will never get third party addons of any kind if Microsoft doesn't want that.

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Flight will never get third party addons of any kind if Microsoft doesn't want that.

 

Agreed, but would add: FLIGHT will never get third-party addons of any kind if we, the existing flight sim community, don't support it to begin with.

 

What do "casual" gamers want with 3pd? They play landing on hangars and fragging other players on short-final..What do they need ATC, autopilots (no patience to fly long enough to need one), proper NAVAID functionality and accurate autogen placement/detailed scenery for?

 

Those users who have joined us on this forum since FLIGHT came out who are prepared to give it a bit more, are supposedly the same "new" flight sim enthusiasts we're after..people who never used FSX, who are new to flyng..I expect they just want better planes and more interesting missions; I dunno...

 

I still maintain, as I always have, that for FLIGHT to succeed as a flight sim not just a game (imo it already has in many ways) in the way we would all like to see it do, we need to be open-minded, as JC originally says, about it's future.

 

Who would you listen to? The vociferous minority who just endlessly re-hash ways of saying how crap it is, or the other however many hundreds of thousands (millions?) of existing FSX users who, if they thought 3pd may come on board one day, would "give it a go" and just wait...rather than be constantly reducing the conversation to MS ripped us/lost it/didn't finish it/won't ever finish/there's no jets/helicopters/fish in it etc etc

 

I think that's the point here: open-minded. Look how long it takes to get some things right...I'm still waiting for a few, but I don't let it get me down...

 

And Simmo, I like your "coming out" description :) I'm a FLIGHT user, and proud of it LOL

 

tbh I'm lazy. It's way quicker and easier to set up a good flight than in FSX and it's the flying I'm after..I don't tend to look down that much :Big Grin:

 

We all love ORBX/payware ac/Reality XP etc etc, but then we can all still get our fix of that, no?

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Great impressions J & J, makes me & I'm sure a few others happy that our feelings that Flight gives a reasonable simulation of flight, without the Barf factor, are correct.

 

Yes, a home sim is very different to RL! Just compare an excellent car game like GT5 or Dirt, great physics and 'feel', but totally different to RL in term of the seat of the pants feedback you get, eg G forces, pivoting of the chassis, feeling individual tires lose grip, feedback through the steering wheel during oversteer, the fear factor etc. As my blog buddy Chip says (he's an experienced pilot), the 'Pucker Factor' is impossible to simulate!

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As my blog buddy Chip says (he's an experienced pilot), the 'Pucker Factor' is impossible to simulate!

 

Oh I dunno... a lot of people sweat during landing challenges. Virtual pucker. :)

 

Hook

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Tell me about it! I hate (but love) landing that 'Kill U 2' in xplane.

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