I just got the JS4100 and it's spectacular. I haven't flown it much as I've been working through the various manuals and trying to pick up as much as I can before being in a position where you have to do things fairly rapidly. The Tutorial is extremely well written, as are all the manuals. Makes learning this very much easier.

 

Mr. Randazzo, my impression is that flying for Atlantic, you were primarily flying to fairly well equipped airports - i.e. those typically that would have power carts for the aircraft while on the ground. I'm mainly interested in going into possibly less well equipped strips where those may not exist. Are battery starts fairly routine on the JS4100 would you say, including during the winter in Canada, or would an operator be more inclined to make sure a GPU was available at every stop so that GPU assisted starts are always available?

 

Thanks very much. This is really good stuff here!

 

Glenn Davy

I just got the JS4100 and it's spectacular. I haven't flown it much as I've been working through the various manuals and trying to pick up as much as I can before being in a position where you have to do things fairly rapidly. The Tutorial is extremely well written, as are all the manuals. Makes learning this very much easier.

 

Mr. Randazzo, my impression is that flying for Atlantic, you were primarily flying to fairly well equipped airports - i.e. those typically that would have power carts for the aircraft while on the ground. I'm mainly interested in going into possibly less well equipped strips where those may not exist. Are battery starts fairly routine on the JS4100 would you say, including during the winter in Canada, or would an operator be more inclined to make sure a GPU was available at every stop so that GPU assisted starts are always available?

 

Thanks very much. This is really good stuff here!

 

Glenn Davy

 

I'm not Robert and I have no flying experience but I would say that battery starts would be hard on the battery after a while. Wouldn't it be cheaper (saving more money for other purposes) to use the GPU rather than the battery?

I'm not Rob either but any licensed airfield with scheduled services is likely to have a 28V ground power unit, they're not rare or expensive, even quite a few GA only fields will have them. If you're flying in to unprepared strips and similar on a charter basis that's different, battery start would be normal then but if you were regularly visiting such a field you'd probably make ground power provisions yourself.

 

Bear in mind the J41 is not a bush plane, it's a commuter/feed aircraft and not really designed for regular operations in to the sorts of airports you are talking about (we're in DHC-6, Do-228 territory). When they do a battery start in the J41, there is very little delay between batteries on and hitting the START button because the batteries don't really have that much juice, it's very taxing on them.

 

It's quite possible in cold environments such as Northern Canada they may opt to leave the right engine running as a source of electrical power; if the field doesn't have a GPU it's unlikely to have a fuel provision, ground crew or proper parking and hence the turnaround would be short and payload/passengers offloaded/uplifted likely small. If you shutdown both engines at such a field you risk being stranded if you can't get an engine to start within a couple of tries as you have no way of recharging the batteries.

Thanks gentlemen for the reply. My question for Robert is really more about how common it was in his experience to use a GPU vs. a battery start IRL. I know with some aircraft the GPU has to be dead and buried for them not to use it, but others are quite "happy" with battery starts and use them most of the time except when at a main hub or on a long turn where they might want to have power on the airplane for other reasons such as maintenance. I do know that most airports do have power carts, but some aircraft have proprietary GPU's (or at least a higher classification of GPU) given the power demands of those aircraft (amps available is usually the limiting factor for generic power machines). That said, at the place I work we did fire up a couple of J31's that we were doing a retro-fit for air ambulance work up north with a fairly generic unit, so unless the J41 has very different demands (which is possible), likely most units will work. Whether they use them every time they are available or will often go on battery alone a good part of the time is my question.

 

When I say "remote strip" I'm not necessarily referring to strips that I used to fly Beavers or 185's into back in my RW flying days :). Most northern airstrips in Canada now do handle "modern"/larger aircraft (including various models of 737's - most being the 200) although many are not paved strips. But airports like Norman Wells, Inuvik, Tuktoyaktuk, Baker Lake, etc. can handle the likes of a Jetstream with no issues in terms of runway requirements and ground facilities, except they may not have the GPU's available for that particular model (again, if required).

 

Thanks guys, appreciate your input .

 

Glenn Davy

I can only speak for my own experience in the J31/32, but normally we just use the GPU. The only times we haven't used it in the months since I've been flying these planes is when the GPU that was available was of such a quality that a battery start took half the time of a GPU start... or if we were running on a tight schedule and did not want to wait for the ground crew to appear.

 

Considering the fact that the J41 is a further development of the J31/32 and not thát much different, I imagine they'd use the same judgement to use GPU or batteries for start.

Thanks Intrance. That's exactly the info I needed :smile2: . Much appreciated!

 

Glenn Davy

No problem, happy to help!

Intrance, if you start the real thing without a GPU cart, does your FMC data get erased as it does in the PMDG J41? Or is that just a bug in the sim?

Intrance, if you start the real thing without a GPU cart, does your FMC data get erased as it does in the PMDG J41? Or is that just a bug in the sim?

 

Well, I fly the Jetstream 31 and 32. They don't have an FMC as standard equipment. There's two setups I've seen so far in the J31/32;

 

1. The GPS is linked to the buses controlled by the Avionic Master switches and will therefore reset if you switch those off for engine start.

2. The GPS is linked to the battery bus and will remain on as long as you have the battery on.

 

One of the aircraft I've flown has two Garmin 530's. The first one is linked to the battery bus, so I can set up the flightplan and procedures and not lose a thing. The second one will switch off when flipping the Avionic Masters switches, so you'll want to do all your preflight stuff on the first one :P.

 

I'm not entirely sure anymore how the J41 FMC is hooked up in the electrical system, I haven't flown her properly in ages. But if it's linked to the buses controlled by the Avionic Master switches, then it's normal that it will reset when you switch those off.

I'm not entirely sure anymore how the J41 FMC is hooked up in the electrical system, I haven't flown her properly in ages. But if it's linked to the buses controlled by the Avionic Master switches, then it's normal that it will reset when you switch those off.

 

Actually, in the PMDG J41 if you do preflight and switch off the avionics switches for startup while still connected to the GPU, no data is lost.

If you disconnect from the GPU before engine start, all the FMC data gets tossed. Appears it isn't tied to the battery but rather the GPU or the engine generators.

Appears it isn't tied to the battery but rather the GPU or the engine generators.

 

That being the case then, if you start your left engine on the GPU after programming your FMC, as long as you switch on the generator before disconnecting the GPU (and prior to starting the right engine), you should be ok. I believe that's what I did last time and it worked fine. But if you are on a pure battery start with no GPU, then you'd have to program your FMC after at least one engine was started, correct?

 

Of course, one way to make that faster (for a battery start) would be to have pre-programmed your flight into the FMC then saved it. Once you are back online then, you can simply call up and enter that saved plan eliminating the need to program it from the start again.

Actually, in the PMDG J41 if you do preflight and switch off the avionics switches for startup while still connected to the GPU, no data is lost.

If you disconnect from the GPU before engine start, all the FMC data gets tossed. Appears it isn't tied to the battery but rather the GPU or the engine generators.

 

Thanks. That's good to know. I use FSDreamTeam's GSX push-back feature a lot which requires engines off and GPU disconnected. I then do engine start using batteries only. After discovering I had to re-enter my FMS data when I do this, it soon became my practice not to program the FMS until after push-back and engine start (which wastes time and fuel). Now I can input the FMS data before the Turn Check where it belongs.

 

This reminds me of another question I have: While the GSX works great with the PMDG J41, does this plane use push-back very often in the real world? I normally have the room to begin taxing without push-back assistance. I just like using the GSX push-back feature. It's fun to see how well it's done (great job Umberto!)

Nope. No push.

If you have Google Earth, go to Washington Dulles International Airport (KIAD) and turn back the clock using the historical maps feature. You'll see parking lines that are curvy and non-standard because they didn't use pushes. They pulled in awkwardly in order to just taxi out under their own power.

 

 

Note the J41s that have their nose turned towards the top of the photo. Most planes would be pointed toward the bottom (like the CRJ at the top right), but the J41 takes the last minute turn away for a couple reasons: the door is now closer to the walkway, and the plane is now positioned in a way that makes it easier for the pilot to see the path out of the gate on departure.

 

You can see an empty spot on the left, where the line aims right at the walkway and then hooks right at the last minute. This is all to make sure the aircraft all fit in tightly, but still have room on the way out.

ATR's are positioned in the same manner at many airports. Here at KJAX, American has the tail abeam the gate and uses a "board" that runs from the jetway to the rear door for loading/unloading pax. Nose pointing out towards the taxi way. Its pretty cool to watch them taxi in and see all the fod get blown into the new "C" concourse... FOD at an airport? i know right... haha

 

In regards to the JS41 GPU question. I cannot speak for the commercial flights, but every now and then when I worked for the FBO on the field, we would get JS41's in all the time. Most preferred a GPU. Some would do a battery start. It depended on how much of a hurry they are in and what type of battery the airplane was equipped with.

 

On the DHC8's many oversea's carriers prefer to have the lead acid battery vs nicad's. As the lead acid can take a bit more abuse than the nicads due to excessive charging / discharging.

 

Remember when starting the 41, always start the number 1 first when using a GPU. The rampie that has to disconnect the GPU on the fuselage directly behind the #2 jet pipe will thank you for this... Otherwise he isn't going any wheres near that cord while the #2 is purring away...

 

Starting Sequence for the GPU-

 

Fire up #1, Turn on #1 Gen, Disconnect GPU, Fire off the #2, Turn on #2 Gen and haul butt.

Thanks Intrance. That's exactly the info I needed :smile2: . Much appreciated!

 

Glenn Davy

 

Hey Glenn,

 

Nice to see you have the J41....she is a beauty!

 

My only advice to you is make sure you get FS2Crew for this. The voice control and interaction with the copilot is astounding and with the workload shared between 2 it makes it much more pleasurable.

 

Glenn