I have seen accidents like this before. Recently a Thomson aircraft landed on the taxiway of an airport instead of the runway, stopped perfectly fine and there was no damage or incidents but an emergency evacuation was required. Like some people say one pilot getting tunnel vision ok but how two pilots can make the mistake of landing at the wrong airport is beyond me. Guess these are just freak accidents and nothing more.

I don't think it is really as hard as some believe. http://www.thirdamendment.com/wrongway.html

Similar incident happened to Ryanair (Okay, Eire Jet, but for rivalry's sake, let's just go with Ryanair )

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2006/mar/30/theairlineindustry.travelnews

 

Rónán O Cadhain.

Thats kind of like when I rolled up at a Burger King drive through window and ordered a Big Mac meal.

Wouldn't happen in one of these new little Cessna's, or my moving map GPS equipped aircraft. These day's, you'd have to be blind, to not notice.

 

L.Adamson

That video's pretty freaky, sounds like the reverse thrusters got a good work out. Could you imagine the conversation on the flight deck when they realised their error?

Thats kind of like when I rolled up at a Burger King drive through window and ordered a Big Mac meal.

 

 

Haha – that made me laugh.

 

Sometimes I find it hard to spot a airport in FSX from my Duke cockpit and think professional pilots in general must be really good – considering the massive amount of hours flown daily in difficult conditions.

 

Incidentally, I remember someone telling me about a fully loaded Saudi Boeing 747 landing at the Juhu aerodome accidentally at Bombay instead of the International Airport which is just ahead (see link).The plane managed to stop, but to take off again from that short airport (mostly used by helicopter charters only) – it had to be completely stripped down – seats etc, and lightest fuel load possible. This was sometime in the 70’s or the 80’s.

 

Google map link - http://goo.gl/maps/nIEk

Wouldn't happen in one of these new little Cessna's, or my moving map GPS equipped aircraft. These day's, you'd have to be blind, to not notice.

 

L.Adamson

 

So is that why the Cirrus landed at Boeing Field instead of Renton a few miles to the east? Give me a break.

 

The C-17 has some of the most advanced avionics I'm pretty sure it was just left out of their navigational loop.

So is that why the Cirrus landed at Boeing Field instead of Renton a few miles to the east? Give me a break.

 

The C-17 has some of the most advanced avionics I'm pretty sure it was just left out of their navigational loop.

 

I get tired of these "excuses". If someone doesn't want to look at a large moving map GPS (if equipped), or just ignors it, or has it turned off, then anything can happen. Just like multi engine fire bomber that slammed into the opposite side of the mountain from where I live. The flying 1st officer saw "red" (terrain warning) on the Garmin 396 that was carried along. He mentioned it to the captain, who apparently didn't hear him, but kept on giving verbal instructions...........in the haze enviroment. The event, in which all three died at 280 knots, was recorded by the cockpit recorder.

 

So no, don't give me the ....."give me a break" excuses. We now have the means to eliminate flying into mountains, as well as taking off or landing on the wrong runways. I say USE it. But then of course many aircraft including commercial and military............still don't have "electronic" equipment that stands up to my Garmin handheld.

 

BTW---- one thing I like about our "experimental aircraft" forums..............is that many commercial and military pilots will freely admit, that their "homebuilt" has better navigational "awareness" equipment than the Boeings, etc. they fly for their day jobs.

 

L.Adamson

I get tired of these "excuses". If someone doesn't want to look at a large moving map GPS (if equipped), or just ignors it, or has it turned off, then anything can happen. Just like multi engine fire bomber that slammed into the opposite side of the mountain from where I live. The flying 1st officer saw "red" (terrain warning) on the Garmin 396 that was carried along. He mentioned it to the captain, who apparently didn't hear him, but kept on giving verbal instructions...........in the haze enviroment. The event, in which all three died at 280 knots, was recorded by the cockpit recorder.

 

So no, don't give me the ....."give me a break" excuses. We now have the means to eliminate flying into mountains, as well as taking off or landing on the wrong runways. I say USE it. But then of course many aircraft including commercial and military............still don't have "electronic" equipment that stands up to my Garmin handheld.

 

BTW---- one thing I like about our "experimental aircraft" forums..............is that many commercial and military pilots will freely admit, that their "homebuilt" has better navigational "awareness" equipment than the Boeings, etc. they fly for their day jobs.

 

L.Adamson

 

GPS will not eliminate the chances of flying into a mountain. One of the first times we debated this, I gave you the example of the two CAP guys flying in a new Skyhawk with moving map who flew right into the mountainside outside of Las Vegas. It is purely a matter of a pilot and how vigilant he is with his crosschecks and attention to whatever equipment he is equipped with that determines whether a flight ends well or not. I get tired of these 'excuses' as well. If someone doesn't want to look at his ILS, VOR, DME, map, or out the window, or just ignores it, or has it turned off, then anything can happen. To think that any one piece of equipment can substitute for crosschecks and vigilance is to tempt fate.

You guys are saying the exact same thing... The equipment is there, but it is up to the crew to manage and use it properly.

 

If the crew does not use the equipment to increase their SA or misinterprets the information, that isn't necessarily due to a defect in the equipment. unfortunately, mistakes will continue to happen, and it is up to the pilot to manage the situation.

I know. I made a point of using L.Adamson's exact words in my post. He himself is saying it is up to the pilot without even realizing it. It's up to the pilot, and how well he understands and uses his equipment, whether it is a GPS moving map or an ADF, that determines the outcome.

That's why every landing should be backed up by any form of navigation. Even though we only fly to 8 different airports for the whole airline we still make sure to put in the VOR or ILS for the runway we were cleared to. Simple things help us to avoid errors like this but sometimes operational conditions hamper with our efforts and things like this can happen.

GPS will not eliminate the chances of flying into a mountain. One of the first times we debated this, I gave you the example of the two CAP guys flying in a new Skyhawk with moving map who flew right into the mountainside outside of Las Vegas.

 

It won't eliminate, but it sure changes the odds. It's really made a difference in Alaska. As far as the CAP "disaster", I actually got hold of the CAP on that one. I DO take this stuff very seriously. Talked to one of the people who helped set up new rules for pilots, before occupying the front seat. Since there are no survivors, they can only make guesses at to what happened. The pilot was checked out in this airplane with the Garmin 1000. The co-pilot had no Garmin 1000 experience. Perhaps the pilot was demonstrating the different features with different menus & pages. As to why, they wouldn't have seen a terrain warning pop-up? From now on, all CAP pilots who occupy either seat in a Garmin 1000 aircraft, must complete a course, as well as check out rides.

 

I know what I do................as I pre-plan every long distance mountain flight, quite meticulously on paper. I really do need a screenshot of my Garmin 696 & those two airports (the C17). It's just far too obvious, that the wrong airport is in the sights. In the meantime, over the years, I've flown to quite a number of mountain accident sites. Once again, my various GPS units with terrain databases, have gave plenty of warning beforehand. In most cases, the pilots just didn't have these devices, or they were primitive GPS units, at best.

 

L.Adamson

Ahh, the human factor.. As long as humans roam this earth, things like this will happen. My day time job is to drive trains, and you bet ive had that tunnel vision. There have been times when ive passed a station at full speed, and the poor passangers standing on the platform, was looking at the rear end of their train, which failed to stop.... And I had all

the indications that I was gonna stop at this station:

 

1:The train schedule told me so (being directly in front of me as I drive, its hard to miss)

 

2:The automatic annunciation (or PIS=Passenger Information System) told me so. The lady that announces the stations (with the help of a GPS and meter-gauge) is also played in the drivers compartment.

 

3:The amount of passengers standing on the platform should have told me something was wrong as I was approaching.

 

I had tunnel vision.. Its possible for even the most experienced, no matter how much equipment you have at your aid.