I know that back in 2005 there was a lot of discussion over this video, and even Alan Carter (Pilot on Virgin 19) himself got involved, but nothing fresh, and the video is still one of a kind.

 

I have spent the last few weeks trying to produce a mission using as much data as I can glean from the video, and have come up with a mystery. When Alan Ratighan is giving his lesson on the FMC, he stated that they had an hour and 10 minutes to run. The FMC shows that they were at that time, 25 nm from LKV on a heading of 178 degrees. By the time they start the descent briefing, they should be between LKV and RBL on a course of 192 degrees, but they are still a very long way from LOZIT at which they need to be at 11000.

 

When they start the briefing, Alan C states that they are 50 miles from Top of Descent, but the PMDG aircraft shows T/D at ENI, around 76 miles from LOZIT which seems reasonable for a 26,000 ft descent.

To add to the plot, they get a call from atc during the briefing giving them a steer direct to LOZIT. The aircraft turns onto a heading of 180, which is further confirmed when given clearance to descend further when they are asked to steer 15 degrees right for spacing, and Alan R confirms the new heading of 195 degrees. From my calculations, the only point from which they could obtain a 180 heading to LOZIT is if they are on the LKV to RBL leg at the time. However, there is no way the Top of Descent should be indicated at this time, it seems to be around 80 miles too early.

 

There is also a slightly puzzling episode, when ATC tell them they need to wait 4 minutes for other traffic at FL350 to clear below them. They were warned of traffic at 11 o'clock and 1 o'clock at 20 and 25 miles respectively. Assuming normal clearances are being observed, wish I knew where they were headed so I can model them into the mission.

 

So far, the major challenges have been getting the 757 to arrive at precisely the right point in space to allow for a parallel flight down to the runway. I'm not sure that AI aircraft take too much notice of the speed set in the waypoints, but I'm gradually refining it.

 

Anyway, if anyone has any ideas on the subject, I'd be most interested see your opinions.

 

P.S. VNAV doesn't seem to like the descent profile and has to be persuaded to start a reasonable rate descent by knocking off the auto throttle, pulling the throttle to idle then re-enabling. Odd.

 

Martin

I don't get it, are you saying the video doesnt add up? Couldn't it just be a video/audio sync issue, or maybe LOZIT has moved or something like that. I'd be curious to read the original stuff if the freaking Captain got involved lol.

, or maybe LOZIT has moved or something like that.

 

This..

 

are you using navdata of 2005?

 

John berg

I only have AIRAC-0805 that came with the 747-400, but I can see no evidence that LOZIT has moved. The paper printout I have of Golden Gate 5 has the same headings as the video shows on the FMC.

Obviously when they edited the video, it is possible that chunks hit the floor that contained useful information, but there are a few odd discrepancies in the video.

 

e.g. ATC give them a pushback slot of 11:07. Captain Carter informs the ground crew that they have a pushback time just after the hour, and also mentions about 10 minutes. When they get pushback clearance, he says "Off Chocks at 10:45", but a previous picture out of the window shows the time on the L33 panel to be 10:46. I wonder if ITVV actually recorded everything on the same day, or went back to fill in some gaps. It's a huge undertaking to put it all together in one hit.

 

Martin

Hello Martin, I think you are a bit OTT with this item. If in fact this was a real world video you can imagine the pressures on the crew dealing with a 747-400 never mind narrating their operations to a watching audience. This was not a training operation to viewers but purely an insight to the aircraft for aviation enthusiasts by and large and not including simmers as such. I found this video quite informative and the crew did a good job all things considered.. I have actually visited ITTV at Scarborough and found the staff to be very friendly. Richard Welsh.

Just a small few remarks:

 

this video was shot in 2000 not 2005 so it's hard to tell if airac from Aug. 05 won't introduce any discrepancies. Is your fuel total about the same at the time when Allan R. describes the FMC ? What CI are you using ? Generally the lower the CI the earlier the descent.

 

About that half a minute difference between captains clock and the parking system clock, I wonder if they used to have all the clocks perfectly synchronized at that time ?

I dont understand the point of this thread, are we trying to prove that the flight never actually happened lol.

Ron, the main point of the thread was to see if anyone had any insights or information that I don't, in order that I can more precisely model the flight. The turn to 180 degrees is a mystery as is the very early descent and Richard, this is just an enthusiast trying to keep his brain cells working after retirement. I've only just started playing with the SDK for FSX and typically bit off nearly more than I can chew.

 

Oh and Jan, I am using a CI of 124, and thanks for that snippet of information. I couldn't remember if CI was modelled or not.

Ok, I think I've got it. When Alan was showing us the FMC, he was 25 miles north of point LKV. ATC must have told them for route direct to REYES - PYE, then it all fits.

 

Thanks for your input folks, and Richard, I think the crew on this flight did an amazing job of flying the aircraft and telling us what was going on. All the ITTV videos are amazing and it's very sad they aren't able to make them on the flight deck anymore.

 

Best wishes to all.

 

Martin

All the ITTV videos are amazing and it's very sad they aren't able to make them on the flight deck anymore.

 

They can't?

ATC must have told them for route direct to REYES - PYE

Actually Allan C. says that during descent briefing: "At the moment we are routing direct to Point Reyes..."

Yes he did, and I thought he was just talking about the way the plate routed them there.

There are always some continuity issues between what was actually filmed happening & what makes the final 'cut' for any piece of moving cinematography, TV programme, music recording or whatever...perhaps this is why things don't always match up in this particular programme?

 

No mysteries & no unsynchronised clocks on the flight deck....period.

I doubt that the coordinates for a fix have changed. Normally they will define a brand new fix with a new name if they need a new one as moving an existing fix and keeping the name could potentially be a safety issue. There are, of course, exceptions to this (e.g. in Australia, RNAV Approach fixes are named systematically. When the approach is redesigned due to a new obstacle, etc., they can't give it a new name, otherwise it won't be following the system anymore!)

I'm sure that some editing was done during the video. Like somebody said, it wasn't a training flight. The video was intended to give us an idea of what was going on. I'd pay more attention to the stuff you can read off the screens.

 

Paul