I have the same question actually.

...

 

It depends a lot from country to country. Scandinavia has better coverage on Vatsim, southern Europe and perhaps parts of central Europe has better coverage on ivao. The UK has pretty good coverage on Vatsim, same with IVAO. Poland has pretty good coverage on vatsim, not sure about IVAO. Cyprus has awesome coverage on VATSIM. The US has far better coverage on vatsim, latin america seems to be quite popular on IVAO, so I imagine that central america and the carribeans have pretty good coverage on IVAO as well. IVAO seems to have a higher average number of connections compared to vatsim. You could always use a tool like DLMN to compare the traffic levels in the region you want to fly.

 

As for why the two of them dont unite? Lots of politics and egos. And besides, if you had built up something like vatsim over the last 10 years would you want to just hand over the power to some dude you dont even know? What about the various FIRs/ARTCCs/VACCs, how would they deal with staffing issues, like who will be the director of a FIR after the merger, who will be the training director etc. This merger basically seems impossible to do.

Didn't IVAO come out with an updated Pilot Client earlier this month, how is that vers?

 

And how do they do with voice communicating, same as before, RW-Teamspeak?

 

I'm interesting to try it out but that voice part have been held me away from it, so far....

 

Give it a go on IVAO. All ATC and pilots alike will help you where needed so you can get to grips with voice.

 

Henk.

Vatsim for me, grate coverage in EU, never tried Ivao....but I'm very happy with Vatsim & take a look at Vroute.

Yes, IVAO uses TeamSpeak for voice. The new pilot and ATC clients were issued to support the new flightplan changes, nothing major beyond that.

I think that you would like either Vatsim or IVAO. Personally, I had trouble configuring IVAO, so I wound up flying Vatsim. When I first began with 'real life' (simulated) ATC, I was intimidated, had no clue what to do, and experienced some of the growing pains associated with impatient ATC controllers at larger airports.

 

I think a great help to your learning experience would be to decide if you are going to fly jets or private airplanes, and if you are going to fly jets, you need to understand how to program your FMC (flight management computer) with weather-based departures and arrivals.

 

One tool that GREATLY helps and avoids a lot of hollering by ATC is (IMHO) AivlaSoft Electronic Flight Bag (EFB). Free for 30 days, AivlaSoft EFB makes you look professional by showing your aircraft position at all time, from the chocks at your gate to all the taxiways and in flight as well. It will show you nearby aircraft that helps you avoid collisions when flying without online ATC, and has been recently enhanced to work with REX Essential Plus (latest release of EFB is beta 1.3.6).

 

You can ask EFB support to help you configure their product, and it supports Navigraph AIRAC subscriptions. EFB can be used (in conjuction with FlightAware and other online real flight reporting websites to clone RW flight plans into FSX).

 

So your procedure would be something like this:

• Pick a departure and destination airport
   
  
• Obtain the weather for both airports (METAR) so you know the prevailing winds - this will help you select the proper takeoff and landing runways. If you are online ATC with Vatsim/IVAO, they often have ATIS weather information for the given airports available. Online ATIS will typically give you the current runways in use for departures and landings.
   
  
• Use a realworld flight reporting agency like FLIGHTAWARE.com to see the routing being used by RW commercial carriers (if you fly commercial jets). If you see abbreviated routes (eg LAXN11 out of LAX for San Diego) those are called TEC Routes and you can decode those at the appropriate ARTCC center for the flight, example, ZLAARTCC is the center for LAX operations, do a search for TEC Routes and you can get the decoded flight plan. Be aware TEC routes are low altitude commercial short hops so you can be handled by just ONE controller the entire flight. The flights between LAX and San Diego are fixed altitude: 11000 to San Diego and 10000 from San Diego if I recall correctly.
  
• Once you have your basic route you also need the SID (Departure procedure) and the STAR (Arrival procedure). These are specific for the weather conditions at both airports as well as the runways you are using. In addition, certain SIDS apply for certain directions of flight, as well as the STARS. Using FLIGHTAWARE (for the USA) will help you to choose real world SIDS and STARS, and EFB will make recommendations as well. Of course ATC trumps all, and ATC may well say something like
  

ATC: Delta 9777, Loop6 departure is not available for late night departures due to noise abatement. Do you have the OSHNN4 departure chart onboard?

 

YOU: Roger Ground, We have the OSHNN4 procedure charts available.

 

ATC: Delta 9777 amending your flight plan from Loop6 to OSHNN4 departure with DAGGET transition, then as filed...

• The biggest gripe that VATSIM/IVAO Controllers have with new pilots using live ATC is the pilot involved doesn't read and understand the departure and arrival procedures. Many departures use FIXES and RADIALS which are SPECIFIC to the takeoff runway involved. LAX uses 2 runways for takeoffs and 2 runways for landings. In 99% of flights, you will use the 24s and 25s for takeoffs and landings, flying out over the ocean, and then continuing on the different departures. For some reason the FMCs in the add on jets have a tendency to always turn right to a new heading, but in LAX you do NOT always turn RIGHT after takeoff!!!
  
• If you TURN RIGHT instead of LEFT on some departures, you will be on a collision course with other aircraft! This is LESS THAN GREAT and makes ATC people get upset, plus it's embarrassing!
  
• Many times a procedure calls for a LEFT TURN , e.g. OSHNN4 and LAXX6 and LOOP6 departures from LAX all have some left turns in them! When in doubt, ASK your controller so you are clear what he is expecting. NAVIGRAPH.com has great resources where you can see the SIDS (departures) and STARS for your airports and the ILS data for the arrival runways. I recommend buying the packages for your "favorite" or "main" airports from Navigraph - or becoming familiar with other online free resources such as AIRNAV.COM
   
  
• Once you have a flight plan at hand, you would have EFB (flight bag) running, you would have Squawkbox4 or IVAO running, and of course some kind of weather program (REX or Active Sky 2012, etc) running, and of course, you would have FSX running.
   
  
• You would initialize your aircraft, align your IRS, initialize the fuel and other elements of your aircraft, and then you would enter the departure and arrival airports into your FMC, then your ROUTE itself.
   
  
• You would enter your departure and arrival procedures as well. Note: SAVED flight plans in EFB do NOT save the SIDS/STARS procedures if you fly the PMDG 737NGX. The NGX requires YOU to select the SIDS and STARS even after loading a saved flight plan to the aircraft!
   
  
• You would dial in the NAV1 and NAV2 radio frequencies for the ILS for your expected arrival runway, and you would enter the CRS (course) heading on both sides of your MCP panel for the expected runway.
   
  
• You would set your initial altitude on your MCP
   
  
• You would set your initial speed on your MCP (I typically set for 250kts)
   
  
• You would turn on Flight Director (F/D) and Auto Throttle (A/T)
   
  
• You would call ATC and say something like
  

You: Los Angeles Ground, this is Delta 9777 with information ALPHA (that is the current ATIS weather you got from VATSIM or IVAO) requesting IFR clearance to McCarren as filed.

 

ATC: Delta 9777 Clearance on Request

 

.... (other chatter)

 

ATC: Delta 9777 ready to copy clearance?

 

You: Delta 9777, ready to copy

 

ATC: Delta 9777 Cleared to McCarren International Airport via the Loop6 Departure with the Dagget Transition, Clarr2 Arrival. Maintain 9000 feet - expect flight level 310 10 minutes after departure. Departure is with Center, 125.8, squawk 7203. (The SQUAWK CODE is the 4-digit code you put into your airplane TRANSPONDER so your plane is visible to ATC. Be sure you are Squawking MODE C [not STANDBY] and you enter the proper SQUAWK CODE into your radio transponder!)

 

You: Cleared to McCarren via the Loop6 with Dagget Transition. Maintain 9000, expect flight level 310 10 minutes after departure, departure is 125 decimal 8, squawk 7203 in the box, Delta 9777.

 

ATC: Delta 9777 readback is correct, expect runway 25 right for departure, call when ready to taxi.

 

You: Call for Taxi, expect 25 Right, Delta 9777.

 

In the meanwhile, you will have determined that the Loop6 departure from runway 25R out of LAX requires you to fly RUNWAY HEADING (255 degrees) until you cross the Santa Monica (SMO) 160 Radial, at which time you will turn LEFT to 220 degrees and fly that heading until ATC gives you a (Heading) Vector back to the LAX VOR, at which time you will turn even further left and fly back over the LAX airport and rejoin the Loop 6 departure which will take you out to DAGGET, then on to Las Vegas.

 

To enter the RADIAL, you need to do two things on your FMC

1. Press the FIX button and enter SMO (Santa Monica). You will select the first of 3 fix locations for SMO, you determine that by reading the LOOP 6 Procedure from Navigraph, AirNav or some other website).

2. Then below the SMO fix, you enter 160 for the RADIAL that you need to cross before you execute your turn off runway heading to new heading 220.

 

After you have done this you will see the radial fix appear in your FMC as green dash lines.

 

Now you're ready to push back from your gate, start your engines, and taxi.

 

If you start with a cold and dark cockpit, you will be on either Ground Power or APU (Auxilliary Power Unit) while at your gate. After the passengers have boarded and the doors are closed and locked, you notify the crew to prepare for pushback (Push that ATTEND button on the overhead to play the two-tone alert sound for the crew), and you call your ground crew to initialize the pushback.

 

Ground crew will disconnect you from Ground Power (you will first have the APU running and engaged, then you will disconnect ground power) and the tow truck will arrive to push you back away from the gate. Ground Services X is a great software add on that will accomplish these tasks for you, as well as load the luggage, fill the galleys with catered food, provide simulated fuel truck (you have to program your fuel into your plane yourself), and also offers a "follow me" vehicle if you're a little lost after you've landed.

 

You: Los Angeles Ground, Delta 9777, Ready to Taxi.

 

ATC: Delta 9777, taxi to 25R via Charlie 8, Bravo.

 

You: Roger Ground, taxiing to 25R via Charlie 8, Bravo.

 

You follow the taxiways given by ATC. If you don't see matching taxiways on your airport map using EFB, your controller may have given you wrong instructions!

 

(EXAMPLE)

You: Ground, I do not have taxiway ZULU on my airport map. Can you clarify?

 

ATC: My apologies, Delta 9777, taxi via Bravo, Bravo 5... (etc)

 

You: Roger Ground, taxiing via Bravo, Bravo 5... Delta 9777

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

HOLD SHORT of all runways (This means STOP and DO NOT CROSS OR ENTER the runway unless ATC tells you to taxi across them. When you reach your takeoff runway, do not enter the runway until ATC tells you you are cleared for takeoff - example:

 

YOU: Los Angeles Ground, Delta 9777 Holding short at 25 Left

 

ATC: Delta 9777 contact Tower on 129.4 (made that up)

 

You: Going to Tower 129.4...

 

You: Tower, Delta 9777 holding short at 25 Right...

 

ATC: Delta 9777 wind 250 at 10 gusting to 15, cleared for Takeoff 25 Right...

 

You: We have the wind, cleared for takeoff 25 Right...

 

(and then you would enter the runway and depart)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

After take off, once you have positive climb and are above 600 feet you would again speak to ATC.

 

YOU: Los Angeles Tower, this is Delta 9777 climbing through 1000 for 9000, flying the Loop 6 as published.

 

ATC: Delta 9777 Radar contact, altitude 1100 feet. Climb to 11000. Contact Los Angeles Center on 125.8 Good Day.

 

You: Going to 125.8 - Good Day

 

You: (After changing to 125.8 on Com1) Los Angeles Center, Delta 9777 passing though 4000 for 11000.

 

ATC: Delta 9777 Good evening, Radar Contact 4500 feet, 4 miles east of LAX. Continue on heading 220, expect Vectors for LAX. Climb to FL310.

 

You: Roger Center, maintain current heading, climb to Flight Level Three One Zero, expect Vectors for LAX VOR.

 

....

 

ATC: Delta 9777 cleared direct to LAX VOR, rejoin the LOOP6 departure.

 

You: Roger, center, cleared to LAX VOR, rejoin the Loop6.

 

so what will be happening is you will be flying HEADINGS at first, and then you will switch to LNAV, when ATC tells you to fly direct to LAX VOR, you will type LAX into your FMC Legs screen in the top position, and execute it, it will ask you to select the active leg/waypoint, you will press LAX button again, then EXECUTE again, then flip the LNAV switch to ON and your plane should rejoin the programmed route.

 

This is just a crude cheat sheet, but gives you some idea of the protocols. You have doubtless heard pilots on ATC saying their callsign and then "With Alpha" "With Delta" "With India" - those are the current ATIS WEATHER data for the airport you are at. You are telling ATC you have the current weather when you say "With Alpha" or "With India" or "With information Alpha". You will sometimes hear ATC say "Attention all aircraft, information Charlie is now current" which means Bravo has been updated to Charlie. Weather ATIS follows the military alphabet (Alpha, Bravo, Charlie, Delta, Echo, Foxtrot, etc).

 

Don't be afraid to ask ATC to verify your instructions - and if you are confused. ask them to clarify.

 

The EFB program from AivlaSoft is a great help, because you can see which way your plane is headed on the ground, and you can see the taxiways the ATC is asking you to use.

 

 

You will need to get the feel for the 'flow' of comms between ATC and other aircraft.

 

NEVER interrupt ATC when they are speaking, try to give about 2 seconds for the aircraft they are speaking to to reply... and then key your mic to speak to ATC.

 

Speak slowly and clearly.

 

Enjoy your flight. ATC makes it so much more real, and you can learn a great deal.

 

Remember, everyone had to 'learn' the same thing YOU are learning when you speak to ATC!

 

 

Where do you get your callsign?

 

You can make one up - you need to learn the prefix letters for the airline you wish to emulate. I fly for Delta VA (virtual Airlines), so I use DAL and then 9777. I use that callsign for every flight, and other pilots use other callsigns and numbers so we can tell each other apart. That way you develop a relationship with ATC controllers and they "recognize" you when you fly often within their airspace.

 

UAL- United

SWA- Southwest

etc, etc.

 

 

Final Thoughts: If ATC asks you to do something you can't do - you can say you are UNABLE to comply. This can occur if you are new to an aircraft and having trouble slowing it down. ATC loves to have you fly 200 knots until you reach the middle marker on the ILS. That may not be realistic if you are flying the NGX. One thing that greatly helps with NGX is to have your cost index about 195 or so... and to know when to turn OFF the Auto Throttle (A/T) during final approach. Put those flaps out and throttle back...get the gear down, and in most cases you want to be about 150 knots or less as you reach the middle marker. If you come in too fast, you will overshoot the landing and need to declare a missed approach...

 

Don't be afraid to let ATC know you are a new pilot, you can open a private CHAT with ATC and tell them so... (in Vatsim). Most of them were new pilots once themselves... they will help you! Other things that can cause unexpected aircraft behavior are weather programs that disrupt your FMC. I had to throttle down the wind effects in REX because it was knocking my NGX off course and causing sudden FMC failures. You can configure REX and FSUIPC (by Pete Dowson) to minimize wind/storm effects on your aircraft. Consult the support teams for your add on products to obtain best practices for smooth flight. After you gain experience, you can start enjoying wind sheer, hurricanes, crosswinds, insane thunderstorms, and more.

 

You will want to get a copy of VATSpy if you fly Vatsim- VATSpy will show you a worldwide map of which ATC controllers are online at a given time. One problem that does occur is you go to an airport where online ATC is in effect, you are sitting at the gate programming your plane, you are just ready to call for clearance, and ATC announces they are closing for the day... and you're flying UNICOM 122.8 (which is uncontrolled or "advisory" channel). When on UNICOM you type in TEXT messages so other nearby airplanes are aware of your intentions. These are considerably shorter than what you tell ATC when ATC is available.

 

You can watch other pilots and see what they type when on UNICOM to learn the TEXT protocols.

 

Mainly, have fun!

Thank you for the very informative post Mr. McDonald.

 

I am very familiar with the 4 addon aircraft I fly (from PMDG and Leonardo) and with their FMCs (even with custom waypoints).

 

My hesitation is only about the following:

- I do not know the ATC "alphabet" (eg alpha bravo charlie and so on)

- How often would I have to consult charts? I'm asking because:

----> FMC data is updated monthly but displayed/printed airport diagrams, SIDs/STARs and approach plates are updated every 3 months. So what happens in between? What if I turn up with a slightly outdated SID, STAR or approach?

----> I don't have a second computer for running other programs and I run FSX in full-screen (for immersion reasons)

----> Would I need to consult my displayed/printed charts? All SIDs/STARs are in the FMC, I can go directly to a point via changing in FMC programming (skipping some intermediate waypoints), and for altitude restrictions I can simply dial-down/up the selected altitude on the EFIS/MCP panel (at worst I could easily change the restriction in the FMC itself)

Thank you for the very informative post Mr. McDonald.

 

I am very familiar with the 4 addon aircraft I fly (from PMDG and Leonardo) and with their FMCs (even with custom waypoints).

 

My hesitation is only about the following:

- I do not know the ATC "alphabet" (eg alpha bravo charlie and so on)

- How often would I have to consult charts? I'm asking because:

----> FMC data is updated monthly but displayed/printed airport diagrams, SIDs/STARs and approach plates are updated every 3 months. So what happens in between? What if I turn up with a slightly outdated SID, STAR or approach?

----> I don't have a second computer for running other programs and I run FSX in full-screen (for immersion reasons)

----> Would I need to consult my displayed/printed charts? All SIDs/STARs are in the FMC, I can go directly to a point via changing in FMC programming (skipping some intermediate waypoints), and for altitude restrictions I can simply dial-down/up the selected altitude on the EFIS/MCP panel (at worst I could easily change the restriction in the FMC itself)

 

I can tell you that a second monitor is a very good thing in several regards. I myself use three 27" monitors during flight. 1 is the main FSX views as you use your monitor now. The second functions as a sort of glass cockpit, where I drag some of the main gauges from the NGX onto the side monitor. This allows me a much bigger view of those instruments during flight and gives me a lot more work area without blocking my view out of the cockpit or interfering with external views.

 

The third monitor is dedicated to running Squawkbox4 (ATC) and AivlaSoft EFB (Electronic Flight Bag). EFB gives me a moving map during flight, and shows my aircraft on the ground as well. Squawkbox is to talk to ATC on Vatsim.

 

I would say that you need to have Charts AVAILABLE for reference. I don't know how you fly, if you fly new flights frequently - having the charts at hand is a real plus, so you can look at them before flight, and have them available if ATC wants to change your flight plan for any reason. Actually, you wouldn't have to look at the charts constantly during the flight, but more beforehand to familiarize yourself for the departure and arrival. I like to print them out on paper and have them beside me on my desktop so I can glance at them if I need to. I guess the next level would be to compile a notebook and store them for future.

 

If you are truly going to try to work with only one monitor (and most of us started out that way), it does somewhat handcuff you in terms of screen space and being able to see things you NEED to see. I have never had a problem with outdated charts, albeit I recognize your point that in theory a chart might be altered without your knowledge. IMHO I don't see the 3-month chart revision you mention being any kind of serious issue to your sim experiences.

 

You will learn the Military alphabet from practice, as ATC will be using it to give taxi instructions and sometimes to spell out a waypoint over the radio to you. You can print it out and have it nearby.

 

The SID/STARS may be in the FMC, but I'm betting the FIXES and RADIALS I mentioned to you are NOT pre-programmed. You thus would need the chart to know the actual procedure. In addition there are typically altitude restrictions on departures and the charts will show those, plus more.

 

When you fly the same route over and over, you will know the procedures and you likely won't need the charts. Yes, you can fly without the charts, but at some point you'll miss something and ATC might let you know about it. If you own a laptop, you can set that up as a second display for your FSX sessions. Others have played around with iPads or other brands of tablets. I can tell you that a tablet with EFB (electronic flight bag) would be a crazy good Christmas present! Make sure it has Wi-Fi and then all your charts could be on a glass tablet. It's hard to imagine anything better! The new UltraBooks with detachable screens and Windows 8 might be just the ticket!

 

I just want to encourage you to pursue ATC "online". From there you might consider joining a Virtual Airline (Delta, United, etc). The DELTA ACARS app works directly with VATSIM and actually requires you to be connected to VATSIM to receive flight credit and to pass pilot check rides. What's cool about that is you can then playback your flight on Google Earth and see your descent and landing against photo-real scenery! Pretty cool.

 

Keep the blue side up.

The SID and STAR data in the FMC is frequently incorrect, or should I say its incorrect more often than not. Thats why you absolutely positively need to have all the charts for the departure and arrival airport available when you fly online. You have to double check the waypoints added by the FMC, you cannot just trust that navigraph has gotten it right, cause they rarely have. ATC expects you to fly a procedure as it was published, not how Navigraph is guessing that the procedure should be flown. Charts often contain lots of info that the FMC wouldn't contain either, even if all the data was accurate.

The SID and STAR data in the FMC is frequently incorrect, or should I say its incorrect more often than not. Thats why you absolutely positively need to have all the charts for the departure and arrival airport available when you fly online. You have to double check the waypoints added by the FMC, you cannot just trust that navigraph has gotten it right, cause they rarely have. ATC expects you to fly a procedure as it was published, not how Navigraph is guessing that the procedure should be flown. Charts often contain lots of info that the FMC wouldn't contain either, even if all the data was accurate.

 

Wims is right. I have myself encountered situations where Navigraph AIRACC update for my FMC on the NGX contained missing waypoints or other wrong data. Yes, at some point Navigraph often releases 'fixes' for their monthly AIRAC updates... but meanwhile what do you do? Having the charts available is KEY. I would say unless you fly the route so much you already KNOW IT BY HEART. I know Loop6 by heart from LAX because I fly it so often when I go to Las Vegas. But I just recently started flying out of Sacramento to Portland, and believe me, I was scouring the charts for the arrival up at Portland (MOXEE6).

 

Navigraph does sell the AERODROME data for each airport, which includes the SID/STAR charts. You can pop Navigraph nDAC open and find your airport, search for STARs and find your arrival chart. You can view it onscreen (including rotating it vertical) or print it out on paper.

 

Handy to have available.

Charts can be downloaded for free from the internet tho, most aeronautical regulatory agencies publish them and make them available for free these days. I don't think Navigraphs nDAC is very good value, and besides, the quality of some of the charts from Navigraph is not really that good. OK, maybe it's good for some small airport in a lesser developed nation that doesn't publish their aeronautical charts for free. But most European nations, as well as USA make charts available for free these days.

Thank you for the very informative post Mr. McDonald.

 

I am very familiar with the 4 addon aircraft I fly (from PMDG and Leonardo) and with their FMCs (even with custom waypoints).

 

My hesitation is only about the following:

- I do not know the ATC "alphabet" (eg alpha bravo charlie and so on)

- How often would I have to consult charts? I'm asking because:

----> FMC data is updated monthly but displayed/printed airport diagrams, SIDs/STARs and approach plates are updated every 3 months. So what happens in between? What if I turn up with a slightly outdated SID, STAR or approach?

----> I don't have a second computer for running other programs and I run FSX in full-screen (for immersion reasons)

----> Would I need to consult my displayed/printed charts? All SIDs/STARs are in the FMC, I can go directly to a point via changing in FMC programming (skipping some intermediate waypoints), and for altitude restrictions I can simply dial-down/up the selected altitude on the EFIS/MCP panel (at worst I could easily change the restriction in the FMC itself)

 

For the phonetic alphabet, play the license plate game. Whenever you are out and see a car, try to read out its license phonetically (assuming where you live isn't all numerical :-p) When I started flight training my classmates and I would do this on the way to and from the airport. Soooo dorky! But once you learn it it becomes second nature, so it's not something worth worrying about as a barrier to flying online.

Charts can be downloaded for free from the internet tho, most aeronautical regulatory agencies publish them and make them available for free these days. I don't think Navigraphs nDAC is very good value, and besides, the quality of some of the charts from Navigraph is not really that good. OK, maybe it's good for some small airport in a lesser developed nation that doesn't publish their aeronautical charts for free. But most European nations, as well as USA make charts available for free these days.

 

I guess it's a matter of personal choice. I like Navigraph only because all the information is organized and in one place. I have no way of knowing if the Navigraph charts are inaccurate compared with RW.

IVAO & VATSIM they are both looking fine  , if you plan to fly in Spain, Germany, South America, MIddle America stick aound with IVAO. Above them there is one big problem- lack of traffic, i have a dream that one day  will join both togethe and change the logo to  IVOVAT :-) or VATIVO. Thought i still would be not enough traffic for pilots & ATCs

 

Best Regards

 

Vidas

depends on where you'll fly. If you'll fly in Europe, you'll have the most coverage with IVAO. For USA, go to VATSIM. If you'll stay just in England, you might consider VATSIM, they have good coverage there

Scandinavia is pretty good on vatsim as well.