If you've been watching the flight-sim add-on market lately. there has been a lot of extremely low grade product coming out.While waiting endlessly for the few CS & F1 products to come out, there has been a plethra of planes & utilities that look more like a box with two wings and a 2D prop, stock sounds, no real art work, and copied .air & cfg files, and all for the unbelievable price - in some cases, of $25.00 to $30.00. Och !I know that most commercial companies consider themselves hobbiest - when they can't get product out, but these people that are attempting to drain our dollars for this low grade junk is simply unbelievable.With the lengthy time spans between products, these closet urcheons with a laptop, are out to fill the market with junk, or in some casesno product at all - failing to locate a graphic artist to create their projects. We've all seen the wonderful products that have comeout in the past - TRUE works of art and computer programming! Do the people that create their 2 day models consider themselves artists in the likes of the past product developers - since they charge the same prices as some of the high end work.Even some of the giants in the industry are contriving to lure our dollars, by once again - previewing up to 8 models, and running guessing contests, but have failed to put out a single product in over a year, and state to their users we don't release product info, these 8 products will not change release times of previous products already being worked on, and don't hassle us - we're hobbiests !In closing - what will the future bring, my guess is it will be 1 x 100 pixel line on a white background, will take 3 years to develop, all for the unbelievable low price of $59.95, and after being hassled on their support forum because the line doesn't work, and the length of time it took to create, they will continue to claim - its just a hobby for us - we don't do it for the money. My hats is off to the artists, quality delvelopers, and the wonderful programmers out there, but my finger is in the air to the people that develop low grade junk. It seems now everyone with Photoshop is an artist. If its sub-par work, keep it in the freeware libraries!

And you somehow think that because these are flight sim related that business practices do not apply or somehow they have super morals? People make things to make a profit it's always been that way from the dawn of time, you know folks do not like to work for nothing, freeware guys get "something" by release, they get known and some of them start their own business producing flight sim add-ons. But this argument can be applied to car makers too! Look at the Yugo for God's sake! But please keep in mind that just because there are over priced Yugos does not mean that the Rolls Royce is not quality worth the $$$..Best Wishes,[h4]Randy J. Smith[/h4][h3]P M D G's 747-400[/h3][h4]coming to a runway near you[/h4][/font color]Caution! Not a real pilot, but do play one on TV ;-)AMD 64 3200+ | ASUS KV8 DELUXE | GFORCE 5700 ULTRA @535/1000 | Maxtor 6Y080M0 SATA 80 GIG | 512 DDR 400 | Windows Xp Pro | Windows Xp Pro 64 |

The market should (and I believe will) solve this problem all by itself. It's absolutely a developer's right to put whatever price they want on their product. If consumers think it's too high, or that the product isn't good, then people don't buy it - simple as that. No one is forcing anyone to pay these prices.I agree with Randy though - there are definitely products out there like PMDG, Flight1/DF, PIC, FFS/Aeroworx, etc that I believe are worth these kinds of prices and maybe more depending on how much further they can up the realism ante with their upcoming products... The poseur developers will get weeded out on their own.

What you say just further illustrates the importance of sites like this - objective and unbiased critiques/reviews and informed discussions (good and bad) from people who have seen the products in question.All goes towards better purchasing decisions and keeps the developers 'on their toes', as they certainly read these pages......Toni.

These sort of posts amuse me.You need to think about these points1) you are not forced to buy anything from any company.2) you are not forced to buy anything from any company on day of release.3) you are not forced to buy anything without first reading a review.I think that if the community as a whole followed these 3 points a few things would happen.First, there would be no more disgruntled simmers saying that this addon is rubbish etc.Secondly, if we are simmers waited, and didnt rush out and buy things as soon as they come out, payware companies would be more likely to look at the quality, cause as it stands some companies can churn anything out in the knowledge that a lot of simmers will jump on "the next big thing".There are to many "headless chickens" in this community, simmers who rush out and buy anything and everything, then as they have the attention span of a strobelit goldfish, get bored very quickly and start looking for their next "fix", yeah fix, its almost like some people are junkies, I mean look at the forums, when is this coming out when is that coming out, FOR HEAVENS SAKE GET A LIFE, there are loads of decent planes and stuff about.Fly what we have and stop complaining about what we dont have.Dan.

The problem here Tabs, is that many of these companies DON'T seem to get weeded out....There's one such company well known to many of the users of sight....should I name them? What the heck; Abacus, that keep on putting out stuff that is frequently WELL below the standard of your PMDG's, PSS's, etc. If they are so well known for their tat, why then are they still in business? By the same token, they do occasionaly buy the license to some very good stuff: the FS Genesis European terrain, and FS Repaint, but for the most part, the aircraft that they distribute seem frequently to be unfinished, parts don't work, or they give wierd graphical anomolies (see an earlier post of mine concerning their KC-135, which incidentaly, is merely the model of a 707 with the refuelling boom lashed on, and thus incorrect).A review on this website of their military fighters collection describes the poor standard of many of the provided panels, and several people that I know who have tried their Carriers 3 pack for FS9, have found that the catapults don't work, the aircraft are buried into the deck, etc.....don't they test their products?Another company that should know better is Flightsoft with their bizarre Hong Kong scenery pack.....no real mesh used, just a bunch of odd-shaped polys for mountains, some really wierd water, and a slew of land textures that don't fit-in with the surroundings....at all!! Granted, some of the buildings, and Kai Tak airport are reasonably well made, but everything looks out of proportion, and the 'video real' claims made for it are a joke!!These are precisely the types of software being blasted in the original posting, and I agree wholly with the sentiments of that. Whillst I have no skill at aircraft/scenery creating, etc, and as such am really in no position to criticise, I cannot help but agree that what is obviously below par should not be marketed as though it's 'the best' and charged for accordingly!

Agree.. their adds look wonderful, inside the box.. just simple junks.

That is what a free market society is all about and the market takes care of itself. I know my level of what I am willing to spend and for what. There are some add-ons out there I would love to have, but feel they are over priced, so I won't touch them. If enough people feel that way, then prices will come down, if not, the market will dictate that the prices go up. Supply and demand.

The fact that some of the "schlockier" developers still exist and appear to be able to make a buck only serves to prove one of two things; that theres some folks out there who aren't as discriminating as you are and who get enough enjoyment out of the products that the cost is worth it to them, or that theres alot of nitwits out there. Either way, it means nothing to me. I do some research before buying things and I haven't been burned yet.

You always get the dross, like the afore mentioned company, whose logo alone will put me off buying a product, nevermind the reviews.But these are the ones on the shelves for the non-forum visiting simmers who don't find the reviews and comments and who are unaware of the superb stuff that isn't on the shelves.Don't forget though that it works both ways.Some of the payware addons are absoultely stunning, and have such care and attention lavished on them that it amazes me they managed to get it all in their.The MAAM B-25 Briefing time and the PMDG 737NG for example were well worth the money. I bought both of them after seeing reviews online and in the flight sim mags. Never saw them on the shelves (well OK 737 NG is on the shelves now at least). So many people will be totally unaware of many the good andthe great, whilst being surrounded by the gaudy boxes of the junkware.I haven't tried the new MAAM DC3 yet, and the PMDG 747 is not yet ready, but such is my trust in the former products from these two companies that I would recommend them without even seeing them.That to me is what a company should strive for, a name you can trust.

It has already been said...Great sites like this and other put out reviews of products that seem to be 3 1/2 stars or better. I like to view the home page of Avsim and other sites, because they have their finger on the pulse of the FS community. If I am interested I will read the review check out the screenshots and make my descision based on that. I fully support both freeware and payware. My hangar is half and half... Only the best quality for my FS pleasure. Thanks to wonderful reviews, articles and forum postings. "Research before you buy...." That is my motto. I haven't gone wrong yet....:D

Reviews take a long time to come out in some cases. Detailed reviews take time. However, there are many many ways to research a product before you buy:-look at screenshots (or lack thereof) -browse the support forum for the product (if they have one) *before* you buy - I find it odd that many people don't go to the support forum until after they have a problem. -download and read the manual (most addons offer the manual free for anyone to download)-don't rush out and buy addons the instant they come out - wait 24 hours and see what the first buyers say - it is rare that a product comes out and doesn't at least have a few user comments. If you don't see any user comments, check the screenshot forum and look for the product there. Don't be afraid to ask someone who has it some questions. I have been on both ends, and it works out well. -look at who develops it - if they are new or unknown, or don't have the best track record (companies can improve) give it even more timePersonally, I try to avoid companies that do not have a support forum and/or do not release their product manuals for free (there are notable exceptions to this rule).

Anyway -- who has time to fly payware a/c -- i've got a hangar full of freeware that I have downloaded and haven't had a chance to even look at! :)Barry

>With the lengthy time spans between products, these closet>urcheons with a laptop, are out to fill the market with junk,>or in some cases>no product at all - Precisely which products do you have in mind here?>Even some of the giants in the industry are contriving to lure>our dollars, by once again - previewing up to 8 models, andWhich giant?

I have my doubts if the market mechanism is really working for flight sim addons, particularly scenery. Judging by the price levels and the very rare occasions where scenery addons come down in price, there is no pressure to lower prices.Just one example, not meant to critisize that particular company (which is bonafide and delivers excellent products), but to illustrate a trend. A couple of years ago I bought a payware Austrian scenery which contained about a dozen excellent airports for - I don't remember it exactly, but it couldn't have been more than about 30 euro. Today, if I want the FS2004 version of the same airports (plus some smaller ones not included in the 2002 version), it costs me 84 euro... Granted, the sceneries are of excellent quality, they have been improved and there are more sceneries included, but still