To install UTX, or not? Advice.......

[quantumleap 1]

But are we now to enter a systematic destruction of P3D. Let me repeat, FSX and P3D on a modern powerful computer are much the same.

 

I am not entering, or planning to enter into a "systematic destruction of P3D". I believe that it is a good thing within the terms of its current licensing model, and maybe even one which with the exit of Microsoft from the entertainment flightsim business, may allow some future legal change in that license to further expand its usage (though honestly, I do not see that being allowed).

 

While FSX and P3D have technical similarities (because of the sharing of a portion of the code base), people have to remember that they are different products, developed by different companies, governed by different EULAs, with diferent upgrade paths and costs. No one got their usage license for P3D for free just because they had FSX, so P3D should be therefore be considered no differently from say X-Plane or Rise of Flight for example.

 

Jeff

[LHookins 3,103]

They already do as noted in this link

 

The link you supplied was to a chart that didn't mention Scenery Solutions or UTX, but did have an entry for Flight1. In that entry it had an X under "EULA does not allow". Note 7 says that P3D was "not supported."

 

No one has said that there is a blanket ban on using Flight 1 products in P3D.

 

You did, by reference to the table you linked above.

 

So... are you Scenery Solutions? Are you also Flight1? You appear to officially represent Flight1. And you are leaving a bad taste in my mouth concerning Flight1 and by extension all products sold under the Flight1 banner.

 

There is some very simple wording that would make your EULA say what you intend, but you'll have to pay an attorney to get it. Whatever boilerplate that came out of did not include it.

 

Hook

[simmerhead 885]

I agree it is sad that UTX can't be used for P3D. It is one of the reasons it won't become a #1 platform for me. But in all fairness, one can hardly blame Scenery Solutions/Flight1 for the terms set by their GIS data supplier. Also I don't understand why Scenery Solutions/Flight1 should change their EULAs. After all they didn't create Prepar3D. Why should they need to relate to it in any way whatsoever. it is Lockheed Martin who should have approached Flight1 and asked if there was a way for them to make their products "compatible". I think some of you folks are being unfair towards Scenery Solutions/Flight1. Again Jeff, thanks for being a gentleman and joining in on the discussion. Mighty fine of you, even though I wish you had better news... Merry X-Mas!

[quantumleap 1]

To try and clarify things.

 

Flight 1 is the sole official distributor of Scenery Solutions products (the Ultimate Terrain series).

 

While I had no involvement in the generation of the AVSIM table regarding status of porting FSX products to P3D, I think it is pretty clear in that it is saying that some products made/distributed by Flight 1 have EULAs which do not allow their use in P3D, and some products which would require that you purchase a P3D licensed version for use in P3D. I do not see how it can be interpreted that there is a blanket ban on all products made/distributed by Flight 1 in P3D. I have also made the point in previous posts that if you wish to determine if any product made/distributed by Flight 1 is made/licensed for use in P3D, then go to the Flight 1 product page for that product (start at http://www.flight1.com) or look on the product DVD.

 

I work on the development and support team for Scenery Solutions, and I was also selected by Flight 1 to act as a Flight 1 Professional to provide support on all the products they make and distribute.

 

While Ultimate Terrain products are currently not licensed for use in P3D, there is a plan to work with the commercial GIS data suppliers used to see if the current agreement with them can be modified such that their data can be used in the development of products for other flight sim platforms.

 

Jeff

[LHookins 3,103]

I work on the development and support team for Scenery Solutions, and I was also selected by Flight 1 to act as a Flight 1 Professional to provide support on all the products they make and distribute.

 

Thanks, Jeff. Good post.

 

When I buy a product, my "contract" is with the EULA, not with a forum post or information on a web site, standard contract law. If the EULA says "for FSX" but does not preclude other uses, that tells me not to expect support for other platforms, although support may still be available, depending on the developer. It does not tell me that I can't use the product on other platforms. There is a way to get the protection you want, but I won't mention it here; consult your attorney.

 

Claiming that posting a scanned copy of the DVD version of the EULA violates copyright is... very odd indeed. You're welcome to do that, but it tells me more than you want me to know about the mindset of the companies involved.

 

You may find my posts objectionable, but if you read between the lines, I'm hinting at what you need to do to get what you want, and letting you know that what you're doing now isn't doing that. I won't spell it out for you, because I've never been a fan of "Everything that isn't mandatory is forbidden."

 

Hook

[Ian McPhail 55]

Oh dear Jeff: Now we know your relationship as a 'connection' to Flight 1 and Scenery Solutions, and Alain has revealed his in another post, we commend your work but now must really ask that you no longer approach us as anything other than totally partisan.

 

Meanwhile I will continue to enjoy OpusX for P3D sold to me by Fiight 1. There are many opinions regarding weather engines but I find this by far the best of the other two (which, gasp, I did make work in P3D).

[alainneedle1 97]

Oh dear Jeff: Now we know your relationship as a 'connection' to Flight 1 and Scenery Solutions, and Alain has revealed his in another post, we commend your work but now must really ask that you no longer approach us as anything other than totally partisan.

 

Meanwhile I will continue to enjoy OpusX for P3D sold to me by Fiight 1. There are many opinions regarding weather engines but I find this by far the best of the other two (which, gasp, I did make work in P3D).

 

Huh!! this one flew right over my head Ian, would care about enlightening me on this remark?

[wizzards 99]

IN my mind its easier to just not purchase anything from flight 1,any company which behaves in the manner that you poeple have becoming aggresive /abusive/bullying on these public forums does not deserve my money ,there are similar products most likely just as good if not a dam site better than yours ! at the very least the developer have made the effort to make them P3D compatable taken and shown interest in what maybe the flight sim of the future ,programes that a normal on the ball well run comany should have at the very least updated by now to P3d and fsx compatability ie ezcam(o sorry forgot that 2 tibetan monks have a eula on the program)and to make matters worse I do not trust you , your company simply do not give me what I want ,you just spew out crap/excuses ,I have got fed up of you compaies appauling inactivity, my scenery is now orbx ,looks bloody good as well ,so no update sales for about 8 of your programs purchased by me! ,no QW bae 146 (shame really liked that aircraft),,no islander etc etc ,as for my being silly,well silly aint a crime but behaving in an unproffesional /rude/threatening way towards your companies bread and butter,is just prattish beyond belife ,other comanies have overcome the precieved problems of P3d and provided meathod of installing there products , ifly paid my 10 quid and bingo ,rex 5quid and bingo in it goes ,canerdo gave there installers free free free! etc etc .what you want to try and do is bull up a crappy update in the guise of a new program and simply resell it !well not to me i aint that ffffffffing silly

[LHookins 3,103]

UTX uses data licensed from another company. They need to abide by the terms of their agreement.

 

Any time a company rep comes in here and plays the "Because I said so!" card, he's gonna get ripped a new one. If Jeff had talked about restrictions in the data they licensed from another company in his very first post, this would have gone a lot better.

 

Now we need to know what the licensing restrictions are. Was it for a specific platform only? Was it for non-commercial use only? Was it for entertainment use only? The exact wording would affect whether UTX could be used with the academic version of P3D. Speculation is useless here, we need the exact restriction, and the same restriction should be spelled out in the EULA. Of course, this is probably company confidential.

 

Hook

[meshman 109]

What world do you people live in....

 

I can't speak for anyone else, but I live in the United States of America, Planet Earth. And you?

 

In my world we are governed by laws, including contract law. An EULA is a contract. It grants grants rights to the user and the developer. It is not a one-way street. It is dictated by the words that the EULA contains. Those words have specific meaning and have controlling influence on the product being used. EULAs grant rights to the user and grants restrictions to the developer. Nothing may be inferred, other than what the words say. Legal precedence has dictated what the words mean. A developer may not infer or imply that the words should mean 'X', when they only say 'Y'.

 

If you are not versed in contract law it can be very easy to simplify things and take "the wrong side" in a discussion. In my world, words have meaning and when used in a contract they provide governance. It takes little effort to construct a contract that is not ambiguous. But courts have generally found that when there is ambiguity, that any benefit of doubt is given to the party making the purchase.

[LHookins 3,103]

But courts have generally found that when there is ambiguity, that any benefit of doubt is given to the party making the purchase.

 

Probably the best post I've ever read on the subject.

 

Hook

[SpiritFlyer 987]

Blah Blah Blah....The sense of entitlement in this community is astounding.

 

You are on extremely thin ice sir. Another remark with this kind of tone will nor enure to your benefit, guaranteed.

[Ian McPhail 55]

I thought this circular debate had concluded, now it would seem the flamethrowers have arrived.

 

Enough everybody, we have done this topic to death ... not resolved it, but pursued the very entrails of the beast.

 

Pax Vobiscum, Peace be with you and have a relaxed Christmas.

[wizzards 99]

as I said I have watched a member of this companies staff demand that postings be closed ,demand,! on avim and I belive LM P3D forums,so in my book demanding anythink is rude,I start A process of thought and sadly I decided that as this company does not choose / want /maybe cant support my choosen simP3D I do not want to support them I do not belive these poeple are bad ,they have walked into a mine field and mistakenly backed themselves into a corner ,I live in europe where they seem to have diff rules to usa,china etc who knows ,microsoft were i belived made to provide a choice of browsers and I belived fined ,i am now after xmas going to find out for myself just what we euro poeple can or not do with software i have purchased (sorry about bloody awful typing sons laptop and cant sleep diff xmas bed) As I said i have made my decision to use only product with an installer for P3d life is to short for all this but having spent my life in a sales lead world you should not engage in argument with poeple who pay you wages they will simply walk away froom you running your company down,look at the new airbus release how that guy put up with the awful comments about the delays in del date in all that flak I never once read a rude comment back to his customers,I bet he felt like having a real go on many an occassions ,but ask him about the sales performance after release and I bet he has the world biggest grin,well

my grand kids are just waking up and as santa has been! off we go

have a happy xmas and a wonedrful P3d year

peter

 

Ps dont suppose you would kindly give me a refund on the 8/9 programs I no longer use (just jocking)

[styckx 1,871]

This thread is a perfect example, and the main reason I left the Flight Simming hobby and this community.. I spent thousands of dollars to get into the flight sim hobby. Avsim seemed like the perfect place to learn from those who were doing this long before me.

 

Between the EULA chasing developers and those who want to argue with them constantly it's the biggest turn off.. I deleted my entire Prepar3D installation, packed up my yoke and rudder and left months ago wiping my hands clean of this. You guys are seriously killing what's left of a niche hobby.