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eurowing

manual landing with autothrottle?

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hi, i have a question regarding RW ops.

 

on the A320 you land with autothrottle even when flying a manual approach. so basically the throttle is not touched from after take off when throttle is set to CLB detent until the aircraft is back on the ground after landing.

 

how is it done on the 11? i flew her today (first time after a long while) and i landed her flying the approach by hand with the autothrottle engaged until on the ground and it worked beautifully. almost felt like flying an airbus if it wasn't for that yoke LOL.

 

is that how it's usually done in the real world or is it all manual in such case?


Denis Kosbeck

KPHX

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how is it done on the 11?

 

Increase the thrust levers to approximately 70% or 1.1 (If I remember correctly) EPR. Once stabilized, activate the ATS.

 

There are different procedures for different airlines. One airline may specify that if the autopilot is not to be used, the ATS is not to be used. Or an airline may require ATS use for all operations including landing.


Kenny Lee
"Keep climbing"
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on the A320 you land with autothrottle even when flying a manual approach. so basically the throttle is not touched from after take off when throttle is set to CLB detent until the aircraft is back on the ground after landing.

Aren't the throttles supposed to be idled manually during both automated and manual landings, as prompted by the "retard" call out?


Regards,
Owen
My YouTube

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the ATS idled automatically during flare.

 

not sure about the bus right now.


Denis Kosbeck

KPHX

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Aren't the throttles supposed to be idled manually during both automated and manual landings, as prompted by the "retard" call out?

Yes, you have to retard the throttles manually, in ANY case.

 

Regarding the original question: Same for A320 or MD-11; Some airlines require you to use ATS with AP off, others forbid the use of ATS with AP off. And again others leave that decision to the pilots. So just to make it clear to the original poster, Airbus is not all about automatic stuff, some airlines require the pilots to have ATS OFF for landing whenever AP is off.

 

Cheers,

Markus


Markus Burkhard

 

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thanks, Markus.

 

never even really tried that in a Boeing. is that possible in let's say the NG or similar and do some airlines operate that way there, too?


Denis Kosbeck

KPHX

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Aren't the throttles supposed to be idled manually during both automated and manual landings, as prompted by the "retard" call out?

Yes they are, but the auto throttles retard power to idle during flare, just like on a Boeing. So in practice you can leave the throttles in CLB detent until you select reverse thrust after touchdown. But even if you don't use reverse you must bring them to idle during rollout or the engine will run up to CLB power when the A/T disengages.

 

The retard callout is a reminder, not an instruction.


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Yes they are, but the auto throttles retard power to idle during flare, just like on a Boeing. So in practice you can leave the throttles in CLB detent until you select reverse thrust after touchdown. But even if you don't use reverse you must bring them to idle during rollout or the engine will run up to CLB power when the A/T disengages.

 

The retard callout is a reminder, not an instruction.

Thanks for the information. I just re-watched an A320 autoland cockpit video, and observed that the THR IDLE PFD annunciation indeed appeared at approximately 30 ft, even when the pilot idled the throttles at below 10 ft. I assume the annunciation indicates the automatic idling of thrust?


Regards,
Owen
My YouTube

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Thanks for the information. I just re-watched an A320 autoland cockpit video, and observed that the THR IDLE PFD annunciation indeed appeared at approximately 30 ft, even when the pilot idled the throttles at below 10 ft. I assume the annunciation indicates the automatic idling of thrust?

Yes, just like the Boeing FMA annunciation of RETARD. If you think about it it wouldn't be much of an autothrottle if it didn't do this in the flare.


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Despite the varied use in the RW, I always just go full manual (no autothrottle) purely for a practical challenge. I have had times where I've accidentally dipped below Vref while I'm distracted watching the attitude and G/S so it's a fun challenge trying to balance all those factors correctly without assistance.

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Guys, on the A3xx the auto thrust only automatically retards thrust during an auto land, if you are hand flying with auto thrust on it will (not) automatically reduce thrust during the flare!


Rob Prest

 

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The DC10 and the G5/550's autothrottle sys will retard to idle during landing. They will retard at 50ft agl. I've landed in all 3 types with autothrottles and I find that most guys don't. The thing is that it makes the landing a tad bit harder to finesse. Issue 1 is that they retard slowly. This can cause some float. The other issue is the point at which the throttles retards. In the DC10, we pulled power at 10% of the gross weight. 400k=40ft. The lighter you are, the later you pull the power due to momentum. It was rare to see guys use it with a manual landing. The times I did, I was instructing. We demo certain capabilities with new guys. The G5/550 is a different animal, you have to pull the power at 50 in the 5 and 100 in the 550. You chop the throttles and slight flare at 20 to 30ft. The big wings and motors combined with the slow autothrottle idle can easily put you down past 2000ft.

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I always just go full manual (no autothrottle) purely for a practical challenge. I have had times where I've accidentally dipped below Vref while I'm distracted watching the attitude and G/S so it's a fun challenge trying to balance all those factors correctly without assistance.

It is so rewarding when you balance and find the sweet spot for all of those variables, almost allowing the aircraft to fly itself without many corrections.

 

In the DC10, we pulled power at 10% of the gross weight. 400k=40ft.

Interesting. Was this the method recommended by McDonnell Douglas?


Regards,
Owen
My YouTube

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I think we are doing the folks who are new to the flight sim community a great disservice by speaking in code in the forums. For example; RW ops -- what?

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