Looks like we'll see another 10.20 RC, i.e. 10.20 RC1 is NOT final:

 

http://developer.x-plane.com/2013/02/why-isnt-x-plane-10-20-release-candidate-1-official/

They're working hard... that's for sure...

 

Apparently there will be more pleasing news for the next releases...

Erm... I think there might be a slight misunderstanding. I think the "final" is just in reference to the 10.20 beta cycle. Expect 10.30 betas to start rolling out next. For now, the 10.20 is cooked and ready to eat and will be the version supported by 3PD's until the 10.30 betas are done and the RC for that is released.

 

...and that's the problem, it's always in BETA, and has been since XP1 back in the 90's. As long as Austin continues with this development philosophy the bulk of 3PD's are going to be hesitant to climb on board. Although some are trying the waters with XP10, mainly because of the wealth of new features, with the exception of Carenado, the ones that are, are doing so rather tentatively. Even Aerosoft hasn't really announced a great amount of addons for it yet. No aircraft like the a320 x and only a couple of their airport scenery have been converted for it.

Tom,

 

I know what you mean, but while I didn't buy any of Peter's Airbuses, or the 777, or that other A320 recently released - aren't those up to the level of the Aerosoft / PMDG heavies? I don't know because I do not plan to use heavies in X-Plane10....

...and that's the problem, it's always in BETA, and has been since XP1 back in the 90's. As long as Austin continues with this development philosophy the bulk of 3PD's are going to be hesitant to climb on board. Although some are trying the waters with XP10, mainly because of the wealth of new features, with the exception of Carenado, the ones that are, are doing so rather tentatively. Even Aerosoft hasn't really announced a great amount of addons for it yet. No aircraft like the a320 x and only a couple of their airport scenery have been converted for it.

 

Well, you're partly right, but let's debunk this "Eternal beta stops developers" myth.

 

First of all, Laminar Research plans are of a total compatibility for _aircrafts_ and _sceneries_ during the whole v10 run.

 

Of course the great exception we're seeing in these weeks, is due to the fact that X-Plane is going from 32 to 64 bits, but this is a (big) one-off!

 

Every author that makes today a 64 bit compatible aircraft or _custom_ scenery, can expect it to be compatible at least for the current run (possibly also for the next major version, I remember Ben Supnik saying that the current scenery system is designed to be future proof). This is demonstrated also by the fact that we're seeing more and more add-on aircrafts and scenery.

 

So, you're right in saying that the eternal beta slows or stops development, but this is only true for those add-ons designed to improve the _default _ features: scenery textures, autogen, weather, ATC/AI, etc.

First of all, Laminar Research plans are of a total compatibility for _aircrafts_ and _sceneries_ during the whole v10 run.

 

As far as compatibility as it will run, yes, but as Austin modifies the flight model code as he does often, you can't guarantee the plane will fly as originally designed, forcing the 3PDs to modify theirs if they want it to fly as originally designed. Even Austin has stated this possibility in the AVSIM teamspeak conference. I agree I don't think there would be much of an issue scenery wise, unless a major change like the recent autogen update required it. As such 3PD's would have to take the time and resources to test these changes to ensure nothing major broke, each time the code is changed.

My point was that people were pronouncing this as final, like it was time for the 3PD's to jump on board. Don't get me wrong, though-- if they do, that's great, but 10.30 will be rolling out soon and the process will start again. It is what it is. I didn't mean to spark off another "X-Plane sucks and here's why" thread.

10.21 will be next ;-) I also thing 10.30 will be = stability ....

10.21 will be next ;-) I also thing 10.30 will be = stability ....

 

Let's see version 9 went stable at 9.70 in 6/11, Version 10 followed 11/11. Only a 5 month window in between.

There will never be a "FINAL" release of a software program for any software company unless it completely stops doing any updates. So while FSX went "FINAL" a few years back, Companies like Laminar and Lockheed are moving forward and hopefully will continue to. None say that you have to keep up with the Betas or even move onto the next version. the point here is progress. 10.20 is the 64-Bit version and when it comes to being a "Stable" version, this when the 3PD's will commit to building, although they already have for the most part and are awaiting the final tweaks.

 

I hope that there will be a 10.30 and 11 and 12 and........ as it means that the program is either getting better or staying up with technology as it changes which will then change your expectations. If you want a "Stable" release then my suggestion is for you to untick the Beta Box in the updater.

 

So, while there currently is and has been a "Stable" version for a while (10.11) and soon to be a 64-Bit (10.20) version that only x-plane has, I hope there will NEVER be a FINAL version.

So, you're right in saying that the eternal beta slows or stops development, but this is only true for those add-ons designed to improve the _default _ features: scenery textures, autogen, weather, ATC/AI, etc.

 

I'm beginning to wonder if any third party development houses will ever tackle these issues, considering Laminar Research's modus operandi is to remain on this perpetual cycle and nobody knows just how far, if at all, they'll improve these items internally before the XP10 cycle is complete.

 

If you want a "Stable" release then my suggestion is for you to untick the Beta Box in the updater.

 

Don't confuse operational stability with the stability of the development platform.

 

In the case of 3rd party addons (like the ones mentioned in my quote from Murmur above), a developer has no sense of stability for these items as long as there is a possibility that Laminar Research will update or improve them with each point release prior to the close of X-Plane 10's development life. Why is "Developer A" going to spend a few months creating new replacement textures when Laminar Research is ever so slowly trickling out new ones... Why is "Developer B" going to whip up a new weather processing engine if there's a good chance Laminar will improve the one built into X-Plane. "Developer C" might have a brilliant idea to fix a problem and add new features, but Laminar Research has hinted they'll do it themselves... sometime.

 

Remember - even before the ultimate demise of MSFS was known, 3rd party developers jumped in with reckless abandon to make addons and improve the platform because they knew they had 3-4 years before the next version would be released...plenty of time to create some goodies, sell them, and make some money. Those 3-4 years simply don't exist in the X-Plane world, and I think the development community suffers for it.

 

We're stuck with what we have today and need to ride it out to the end of the XP10 cycle... I just hope they don't announce and then release XP11 before the paint is dry with XP10, or else we're right back to where we started.

 

-Greg

I couldn't have said it any better Greg, well said, to the point, and the unfortunate truth.

 

We are, and probably always will be "stuck" with the crumbs were fed along the way. There never has been any "great" influx of much needed 3rd party development. Honestly, who cares about addon aircraft at this point, we need the base sim functionality fixed first, atc, ai traffic, weather engine to name a few. These "poor" areas will always keep Xplane from being a full function flight simulator, and thus will continue to diminish it's relevance in the flight sim market no matter what aircraft are offered. I will not spend another dime on developers aircraft until the base of Xplane is "fixed" first. What use is a nice new shiny aircraft if the rest of the "simulation" fails miserably.

 

As you said Greg, until the development platform stabilizes, your never going to see the much needed outside support.

 

And, for those of you that still don't seem to understand (you can argue the point all you like), Xplane IS always in Beta. The evidence is in the fact that there isn't any 3rd party development in needed areas. If it wasn't always a moving target, do you not think developers would have jumped on board? They haven't, and the reason is the perpetual development Beta cycles.

 

If 10.20 is final, where are all the developers, aircraft development doesn't count, they've been around and "struggling" to keep up since day one. Were talking about the other key areas of Xplane that are sorely lacking, and always have been. Not going to happen people, and always will "stunt" Xplanes growth.

 

Glen

 

Edit: Again, I'll just add. If your happy to just jump into a plane and fly around, have no real interaction with advanced atc, have no "logical" moving ai aircraft, have no advanced weather engine, again just to name a few, then Xplane is more that adequate. But to call it "The Worlds Most Advanced Flight Simulator" is far from the truth, and an outright misleading statement / lie. That fact cannot be argued. The lack of flight simulation functionality, or it's poor implementation, cannot be hidden, it's blatantly obvious. Xplane doesn't offer near the fuctionality that FSX does with addons, how can it claim to be the most advanced? As an engineering tool, yes, but we (I) want a flight simulator, something that simulates all aspects of flight. Xplane still does not offer this, and won't, without change.

 

So, to sum up, it's final (?), great, where's the developers, aircraft don't count? Who's making the much needed ATC program, anyone? Didn't think so.

I couldn't have said it any better Greg, well said, to the point, and the unfortunate truth.

 

We are, and probably always will be "stuck" with the crumbs were fed along the way. There never has been any "great" influx of much needed 3rd party development. Honestly, who cares about addon aircraft at this point, we need the base sim functionality fixed first, atc, ai traffic, weather engine to name a few. These "poor" areas will always keep Xplane from being a full function flight simulator, and thus will continue to diminish it's relevance in the flight sim market no matter what aircraft are offered. I will not spend another dime on developers aircraft until the base of Xplane is "fixed" first. What use is a nice new shiny aircraft if the rest of the "simulation" fails miserably.

 

As you said Greg, until the development platform stabilizes, your never going to see the much needed outside support.

 

And, for those of you that still don't seem to understand (you can argue the point all you like), Xplane IS always in Beta. The evidence is in the fact that there isn't any 3rd party development in needed areas. If it wasn't always a moving target, do you not think developers would have jumped on board? They haven't, and the reason is the perpetual development Beta cycles.

 

If 10.20 is final, where are all the developers, aircraft development doesn't count, they've been around and "struggling" to keep up since day one. Were talking about the other key areas of Xplane that are sorely lacking, and always have been. Not going to happen people, and always will "stunt" Xplanes growth.

 

Glen

 

Edit: Again, I'll just add. If your happy to just jump into a plane and fly around, have no real interaction with advanced atc, have no "logical" moving ai aircraft, have no advanced weather engine, again just to name a few, then Xplane is more that adequate. But to call it "The Worlds Most Advanced Flight Simulator" is far from the truth, and an outright misleading statement / lie. That fact cannot be argued. The lack of flight simulation functionality, or it's poor implementation, cannot be hidden, it's blatantly obvious. Xplane doesn't offer near the fuctionality that FSX does with addons, how can it claim to be the most advanced? As an engineering tool, yes, but we (I) want a flight simulator, something that simulates all aspects of flight. Xplane still does not offer this, and won't, without change.

 

So, to sum up, it's final (?), great, where's the developers, aircraft don't count? Who's making the much needed ATC program, anyone? Didn't think so.

i'm going to walk my dog around Muskoka and when I see you......it's on! Attack him girl! :lol: :diablo:

i'm going to walk my dog around Muskoka and when I see you......it's on! Posted Image Attack him girl! :lol: :diablo:

 

Five, shaking in my boots, that's a nasty set of teeth.

 

 

 

Glen

 

Edit: Then I'll tell the little black bear that's hanging around here where his/her? next meal is going to come from.

In the case of 3rd party addons (like the ones mentioned in my quote from Murmur above), a developer has no sense of stability for these items as long as there is a possibility that Laminar Research will update or improve them with each point release prior to the close of X-Plane 10's development life. Why is "Developer A" going to spend a few months creating new replacement textures when Laminar Research is ever so slowly trickling out new ones... Why is "Developer B" going to whip up a new weather processing engine if there's a good chance Laminar will improve the one built into X-Plane. "Developer C" might have a brilliant idea to fix a problem and add new features, but Laminar Research has hinted they'll do it themselves... sometime.

 

It's the nature of competition. A third party developer just has to make sure they're better than whatever Laminar Research eventually releases, or be prepared to innovate if LR releases something better than what they're offering.