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TU0833

FSX ATC assigns opposite runways for landing and departing

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I'm not quite sure if everyone using third party weather engine has this problem, but something is seriousely wrong with FSX ATC. For some (unkown) reason ATC assigns opposite runways for takeoff and landing like 01L for landing and 19R for departing. As far as my experience is telling me, this happens mostly at airports with parallel runways like LAX, Manchester, Gatwick, LAS Vegas, etc. Disabling the weather engine doesn't help alot and seems to be ATC related. Wondering if anyone in the FS community got the answer to this problem.

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I'll try and explain - I might be wrong but if I recall correctly i'm sure i've read its a "flaw" in FSX particularly with real world weather engines.

 

You start your flight.....whether at the gate, or on the runway doesn't matter too much.....and there will be no weather initially i.e. wind 3kts at 000.

 

FSX then assigns all AI on start up to the preferred runway given the 3kts @ 000 - and they are locked in to that approach/runway

 

Your weather engine then generates the correct weather and generates it in the sim i.e. 18kts at 180 and as new AI requests landing/takeoff clearance, they are then assigned to the opposite but correct for the winds runway hence you can initially get head-on landings/takeoffs.

 

I believe the problem lies with the fact that FSX cannot change the runway assignments as quickly as a weather engine can change the weather......in FSX if the wind swings around, AI that is already locked into an approach, will remain on that runway even if it means its landing with a 30kt tailwind by the time it arrives!!

 

The workaround - if you can call it that - is to wait 20-30 mins whilst FSX and its AI/ATC "settle down" and the initial "rogue" AI should have cleared the runways.

 

Hope that assists.

 

Regards

 

Steve

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I didn't know this but I'm aware of the slow loading of REX weather. Pardon me for posting but it's a funny story.

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I didn't know this but I'm aware of the slow loading of REX weather. Pardon me for posting but it's a funny story.

 

Not sure I understand what you mean........a funny story?!?!

 

Regards

 

Steve

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I'll try and explain - I might be wrong but if I recall correctly i'm sure i've read its a "flaw" in FSX particularly with real world weather engines.

 

You start your flight.....whether at the gate, or on the runway doesn't matter too much.....and there will be no weather initially i.e. wind 3kts at 000.

 

FSX then assigns all AI on start up to the preferred runway given the 3kts @ 000 - and they are locked in to that approach/runway

 

Your weather engine then generates the correct weather and generates it in the sim i.e. 18kts at 180 and as new AI requests landing/takeoff clearance, they are then assigned to the opposite but correct for the winds runway hence you can initially get head-on landings/takeoffs.

 

I believe the problem lies with the fact that FSX cannot change the runway assignments as quickly as a weather engine can change the weather......in FSX if the wind swings around, AI that is already locked into an approach, will remain on that runway even if it means its landing with a 30kt tailwind by the time it arrives!!

 

The workaround - if you can call it that - is to wait 20-30 mins whilst FSX and its AI/ATC "settle down" and the initial "rogue" AI should have cleared the runways.

 

Hope that assists.

 

Regards

 

Steve

 

It don't think that you can wait 20-30 min when you're landing. Once ATIS tells which runways are active, you get all the way through the STAR and there is nothing you can do when you're 10nm from the runway and AI taking off straight in your face :blush:

 

I'll try different scenarios to corner the problem exactly

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Once you discover ATC is doing this, have you tried requesting a different approach?

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My 20 min wait solution is clearly only usable at startup - I assumed that you were experiencing this issue then and not on arrival!!!

 

Are you just flying a STAR without using FSX ATC yourself or is fsx ATC actually directing you onto the "opposite" runway???

 

Does this happen at single runway airports???

 

Regards

 

Steve

 

Sent from my BlackBerry 8520 using Tapatalk

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Not sure I understand what you mean........a funny story?!?!

 

Regards

 

Steve

 

Hello

 

My comment was not meant to be disrespectful. Ok? It just sounded funny when you said traffic from both sides. I mean, talk about chaos. Can you imagine that happening in real life? One of my pet peaves in real world flying is when pilots started using the Comm radio for personal things. That can cause chaos real quick when someone needs to say, declare an emergency. Anyways, it just sounded funny because I never heard it before. LOL

 

Best Wishes & Blue Skies

 

Dave

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Well, it's funny to me because it's happened to me as well, recently, but only with just departures when using Radar Contact. The airliners are all going to 19R and KSNA and they clear me to 01L. Not funny and yet.

 

In the real world, when tower tells approach that it's switching runways things can get pretty hectic and weird. Aircraft on final are left on final (and, maybe, offered circling depending on the situation). Aircraft not yet on final are vectored to the new runway. Aircraft in the VFR pattern are spun around. Aircraft newly taxiing out are assigned the new runway. Aircraft holding short are...just dealt with. It is a boolean decision and the tower shouldn't be flipping back and forth. Opposite direction landings and departures are a relatively rare occurrence from my experience. Ongoing opposite direction stuff is just a recipe for a smashup and I don't know what these FSX programs are doing. In my case I just requested the same runway they were giving to everybody else. And besides...I'd filed a SID for the runway I'd requested and didn't want to muck with my flight plan.

 

Gregg

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Hello

 

My comment was not meant to be disrespectful. Ok? It just sounded funny when you said traffic from both sides. I mean, talk about chaos. Can you imagine that happening in real life? One of my pet peaves in real world flying is when pilots started using the Comm radio for personal things. That can cause chaos real quick when someone needs to say, declare an emergency. Anyways, it just sounded funny because I never heard it before. LOL

 

Best Wishes & Blue Skies

 

Dave

 

Dave

 

No worries, there was no offence taken....I just wasn't sure what you meant.

 

If you have REX (as I do), you should be able to see this issue for yourself - load FSX and just watch the AI & listen to ATC at a busy airport...whilst REX is generating the weather, FSX will be assigning approach & landing clearances to AI aircraft based on the initial weather that FSX gives us (3 kts @ 000 IIRC).

 

Once REX has generated the weather, any AI requesting clearance (takeoff or landing) will be assigned a runway based on the REX injected weather.

 

However, the AI that was granted clearance BEFORE REX generated & injected its weather cannot (& will not) be assigned a new runway/approach and will land/take-off on the original runway it was cleared for.........which can be, and often is, the opposite direction to the real world weather!!

 

Hope it makes some sort of sense!!

 

Regards

 

Steve

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Dave

 

No worries, there was no offence taken....I just wasn't sure what you meant.

 

If you have REX (as I do), you should be able to see this issue for yourself - load FSX and just watch the AI & listen to ATC at a busy airport...whilst REX is generating the weather, FSX will be assigning approach & landing clearances to AI aircraft based on the initial weather that FSX gives us (3 kts @ 000 IIRC).

 

Once REX has generated the weather, any AI requesting clearance (takeoff or landing) will be assigned a runway based on the REX injected weather.

 

However, the AI that was granted clearance BEFORE REX generated & injected its weather cannot (& will not) be assigned a new runway/approach and will land/take-off on the original runway it was cleared for.........which can be, and often is, the opposite direction to the real world weather!!

 

Hope it makes some sort of sense!!

 

Regards

 

Steve

 

Oh, it makes perfect sense. The only solution is to let REX load the weather and then let things settle down in FSX before we enbark on our next journey.

 

It kind of reminds me of a day when IMC prevailed. Visibility was low and airport was currently IFR. Sometimes pilots get confused and get lost at the airport. Turns are made at the wrong intersections and now there is a strong potential for a runway incursion. A potential that could have been avoided by swallowing one's pride and admitting that they were lost to begin with. Egos run rampant in real world aviation and we need to spend less time thinking about how other pilots view us. The female controller for ground suddenly ordered all traffic to stop, tower stopped all departures until the real location of the aircraft was confirmed.

 

We have a saying when it comes to mistakes. There are two kinds of pilots. Those that have and those that will.

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Well, it's funny to me because it's happened to me as well, recently, but only with just departures when using Radar Contact. The airliners are all going to 19R and KSNA and they clear me to 01L. Not funny and yet.

 

In the real world, when tower tells approach that it's switching runways things can get pretty hectic and weird. Aircraft on final are left on final (and, maybe, offered circling depending on the situation). Aircraft not yet on final are vectored to the new runway. Aircraft in the VFR pattern are spun around. Aircraft newly taxiing out are assigned the new runway. Aircraft holding short are...just dealt with. It is a boolean decision and the tower shouldn't be flipping back and forth. Opposite direction landings and departures are a relatively rare occurrence from my experience. Ongoing opposite direction stuff is just a recipe for a smashup and I don't know what these FSX programs are doing. In my case I just requested the same runway they were giving to everybody else. And besides...I'd filed a SID for the runway I'd requested and didn't want to muck with my flight plan.

 

Gregg

 

Thanks for comment. In Texas that happens quite often. Been there, done that. When it happens, we'd better be paying close attention to what's being said. LOL

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Once you discover ATC is doing this, have you tried requesting a different approach?

 

Even if I did, ATC would still assign runways randomly for takeoff and landing

 

My 20 min wait solution is clearly only usable at startup - I assumed that you were experiencing this issue then and not on arrival!!!

 

Are you just flying a STAR without using FSX ATC yourself or is fsx ATC actually directing you onto the "opposite" runway???

 

Does this happen at single runway airports???

 

Regards

 

Steve

 

Sent from my BlackBerry 8520 using Tapatalk

 

Usually I don't use FSX ATC because it's simply plain stupid when vectoring you on finals. I get the active runways from ATIS but since I can't disable ATC, it keeps throwing AI all over the place (It wouldn't surprise me if they send them to the nearby highway :P ). As I said this happens mostly with parallel runways for certain airports.

 

Yesterday I disabled ASE and loaded a stable weather scenario to see if it works and it did. Now this refers to only one thing: the frequent change in wind direction is creating this whole mess. I need to find out how to smooth winds coming out of ASE and as far as I investigated, it's something worthy an update from the addon makers.

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All,

 

The fix is to allow your weather to load and then re-fresh the AI in FS. Some weather programs have a button to do this or just advance the time in FS by 2 minutes. Note that any planes cleared to land will continue to do so.

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Weather needs loading by engine before ATC starts else ATC is already running assigned runways for the unset weather.

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Thanks Jim, I tried your trick but didn't work :(

 

Please provide the airport, runways being used, and the weather that was active at the time.

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Weather needs loading by engine before ATC starts else ATC is already running assigned runways for the unset weather.

This is what I do all the time

 

Please provide the airport, runways being used, and the weather that was active at the time.

 

KLAX 280153Z 00000KT 10SM CLR 225/06 A3000

 

Given the wind direction, I noticed that ATC assigns departing AI for the right runway 25L-R/24L-R. However landing AI still come from the opposite direction. Wind was smooth and didn't see any major shift in direction. I deactivated some options in ASE like "Force ATC Wind Lock" and "Direct Weather Control" to see if that helps but none. So I decided to close ASE and rely on default (real) weather coming from FSX, and I worked.

 

This leaves room for only one reasonable explanation: ASE is messing up with ATC and AI. I checked HIFI sim webiste to see if someone has reported something similar but none. The only thing I found for wind smoothing is to update FSUIPC but that didn't help. I don't think the guys there are ready to make an update for me only

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With zero winds ATC goes by runway settings in the scenery.

 

Does it stay with 'preferred' below a preset level?...usually about 5 knots RW.

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...the winds aft and side winds vector components are compared, the speed thresholds are set into ATC, not scenery, only 'primary landing' 'secondary takeoff' and so on are in the scenery.

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This is what I do all the time

 

 

 

KLAX 280153Z 00000KT 10SM CLR 225/06 A3000

 

Given the wind direction, I noticed that ATC assigns departing AI for the right runway 25L-R/24L-R. However landing AI still come from the opposite direction. Wind was smooth and didn't see any major shift in direction. I deactivated some options in ASE like "Force ATC Wind Lock" and "Direct Weather Control" to see if that helps but none. So I decided to close ASE and rely on default (real) weather coming from FSX, and I worked.

 

This leaves room for only one reasonable explanation: ASE is messing up with ATC and AI. I checked HIFI sim webiste to see if someone has reported something similar but none. The only thing I found for wind smoothing is to update FSUIPC but that didn't help. I don't think the guys there are ready to make an update for me only

 

1. This is not an ASE issue.

 

2. Please note that there is absolutely no wind speed or direction in that METAR and FS will use the default runways for landings and take offs as Steve stated.

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