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Airbus Commander

Air India Pilots Did WHAT!?!?!?!

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That is just plain stupidity!

 

BTW Ró, don't get any ideas :P

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Think of conflicting traffic, accidentally overriding the autopilot by touching the sidestick ...

 

Any thoughts on pilots' overload, working hours, low wages forcing them to accept a second job, maybe?

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Probably 1 of 20 odd cases are published by the media. There's a lot more that goes on but the media never catches a whiff of it, thanks to the airline officials and crews themselves. Being an Indian, I know people in the airline who only have 100 hours on a single engine prop and are now flying the T7 or 738 without any formal ATP training which is why hearing things such as 'pilot paid to get his rating' or 'pilot awarded captaincy because his father is a big shot politician' has become the norm there.

Corruption, politics, bribery get you your aviation certificate there, not legit training.

Welcome to Air India :)

Disgusted as a fellow pilot, embarrassed as an Indian. Prosecute them in court and black list them.

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wow..

 

I could say so much more about the eastern world...and its ways...but i like being able to post.. -_-

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Probably 1 of 20 odd cases are published by the media. There's a lot more that goes on but the media never catches a whiff of it, thanks to the airline officials and crews themselves. Being an Indian, I know people in the airline who only have 100 hours on a single engine prop and are now flying the T7 or 738 without any formal ATP training which is why hearing things such as 'pilot paid to get his rating' or 'pilot awarded captaincy because his father is a big shot politician' has become the norm there.

 

Corruption, politics, bribery get you your aviation certificate there, not legit training.

 

Welcome to Air India :)

 

Disgusted as a fellow pilot, embarrassed as an Indian. Prosecute them in court and black list them.

 

 

Are you implying that almost any AVSIM member could do a better job on a RW Air India B777 than a number of those RW Air India Captains?!?   :blink:

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Are you implying that almost any AVSIM member could do a better job on a RW Air India B777 than a number of those RW Air India Captains?!?   :blink:

Sounds like he is, and sadly, he is right.

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Are you implying that almost any AVSIM member could do a better job on a RW Air India B777 than a number of those RW Air India Captains?!? :blink:

Haha, don't get me wrong, there are a lot of quality trained personnel who have previous experience but the ones I know who are on both 777 and 738s, yes I'm quite sure a skilled AVSIMmer will be able to match (perhaps even exceed) the knowledge of an active member in the airline.

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krazyk, on 03 May 2013 - 11:52 AM, said:

Haha, don't get me wrong, there are a lot of quality trained personnel who have previous experience but the ones I know who are on both 777 and 738s, yes I'm quite sure a skilled AVSIMmer will be able to match (perhaps even exceed) the knowledge of an active member in the airline.

Apparently, Air India are going to make it co policy that they have an avid flight simmer on every flight and they must own at least one PMDG product....;-)

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Apparently, Air India are going to make it co policy that they have an avid flight simmer on every flight and they must own at least one PMDG product....;-)

 

 

So it's more than just rumour: Every RW Air India pilot will get his PMDG T7 copy for free?   B)

 

High time for me to apply for a job in Indian aviation industry ...   :rolleyes:

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Apparently, Air India are going to make it co policy that they have an avid flight simmer on every flight and they must own at least one PMDG product....;-)

 

I'd make that policy effective immediately! Haha. We'd fare a much better chance of making the flight safe (rather than what's usually posted in the Indian media - physical fights among crew members, flight overflies destination because the crew didn't know how to use the radio panel / were sleeping, etc)   :lol:

 

 

 

High time for me to apply for a job in Indian aviation industry ...  

 

Or if you're financially well off, you can get your rating certificate as well as an ATP certificate within a few hours with signatures from the DGCA officials  :P

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Apparently, Air India are going to make it co policy that they have an avid flight simmer on every flight and they must own at least one PMDG product....;-)

:LMAO:

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(...)

 

Or if you're financially well off, you can get your rating certificate as well as an ATP certificate within a few hours with signatures from the DGCA officials  :P

 

 

I'll better stop after this one:

 

Heck, I didn't know the PMDG T7 will be so expensive that a "stopover" in India would actually pay off!   :biggrin:

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Rónán O Cadhain, on 03 May 2013 - 3:21 PM, said:

http://www.mumbaimirror.com/mumbai/cover-story/Pilots-sleep-as-air-hostess-turns-off-autopilot-on-Bangkok-Delhi-flight/articleshow/19849077.cms

 

 

My god, never in my life have I seen such blatent disregard for safety, procedures and just good old common sense!!! What were they thinking???

 

Regards,

Ró.

Ro,

 

As much as I dont condone a lot of what goes on in Indian Aviation, I would like to also take this with a bag of salt as the reporting is done by Mumbai Mirror and Times Of India. If you think that the AI pilots had such blatant disregard for safety, procedures, common sense, etc, let me tell you MM and ToI have blatantly greater disregard for the veracity of their reporting, especially in matters to do with Aviation.

 

Until and unless the actual truth be known, let us give the AI crew "some" benefit of doubt. I will try and see if I can find out what actually happened.

 

@@Luke M, lets not get into a debate about Eastern and Western World. I have a friend who is a TRE at 9W and

when he was doing some suitability checks for a couple of European Captains on the NG simulator, he was shocked that, one of the "Captains" had no clue on how to program a route manually nor enter waypoints throughthe LEGS page. And this is just one incident.

 

Regards,

 

Dinshaw Parakh.

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Haha, don't get me wrong, there are a lot of quality trained personnel who have previous experience but the ones I know who are on both 777 and 738s, yes I'm quite sure a skilled AVSIMmer will be able to match (perhaps even exceed) the knowledge of an active member in the airline.

Wow. It amazes me that safety concerns aren't priority in such a dangerous job for in-experienced people. Its hard to believe what you have just said in your previous posts, but it doesn't surprise me to be honest.

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Ro,

 

As much as I dont condone a lot of what goes on in Indian Aviation, I would like to also take this with a bag of salt as the reporting is done by Mumbai Mirror and Times Of India. If you think that the AI pilots had such blatant disregard for safety, procedures, common sense, etc, let me tell you MM and ToI have blatantly greater disregard for the veracity of their reporting, especially in matters to do with Aviation.

 

Until and unless the actual truth be known, let us give the AI crew "some" benefit of doubt. I will try and see if I can find out what actually happened.

 

@@Luke M, lets not get into a debate about Eastern and Western World. I have a friend who is a TRE at 9W and

when he was doing some suitability checks for a couple of European Captains on the NG simulator, he was shocked that, one of the "Captains" had no clue on how to program a route manually nor enter waypoints throughthe LEGS page. And this is just one incident.

 

Regards,

 

Dinshaw Parakh.

Director General Arun Mishra of the Directorate General of Civil Aviation (DGCA), confirmed that all four employees had been suspended. "Following a safety violation, the airline has already suspended the people in question. We are conducting a inquiry into the matter," Mishra told Mumbai Mirror

 

DGCA already confirmed...  No benefit of the doubt required.

 

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Strictly speaking the benefit of doubt must also be given during an ongoing inquiry (until the final report is disclosed).

 

In any way I second that NO debate about Eastern vs. Western world: Too many Western airlines coming to my mind that don't want to be discussed here ...

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i was refering to the mentality of the eastern ways, not airlines :unsure:

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Strictly speaking the benefit of doubt must also be given during an ongoing inquiry (until the final report is disclosed).

 

In any way I second that NO debate about Eastern vs. Western world: Too many Western airlines coming to my mind that don't want to be discussed here ...

 

Funny, I think of it like innocent until proven guilty which is a total misnomer in a lot of cases...  If you are truly innocent until guilty why are you in jail during trial ;) (usually because the evidence is so overwhelming or you are a risk)     If the pilots are entitled to benefit of the doubt then why did the airline state they were already suspended following a safety violation?   It sounds to me like the airline has already assigned guilt and now it is being investigated by the Civil Aviation Authority.  No different than United suspending two pilots and then it escalating to the FAA...  The airline already assigned guilt, now it is a larger investigation.

 

I could just be interpreting it wrong though.

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At least the 2 flight attendants were really good looking.

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The phrase innocent until proved guilty is often misunderstood. All it really means is that in court the accused doesn't have to prove innocence. The prosecution has to prove guilt.

Suspension doesn't imply an assumption of guilt either. It a common sense approach when there's reasonable suspicion. ‌ In this case, Would you want to fly with a pilot who's subsequently been proved to have disregarded safety so flagrantly?

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The phrase innocent until proved guilty is often misunderstood. All it really means is that in court the accused doesn't have to prove innocence. The prosecution has to prove guilt.

 

Suspension doesn't imply an assumption of guilt either. It a common sense approach when there's reasonable suspicion. ‌ In this case, Would you want to fly with a pilot who's subsequently been proved to have disregarded safety so flagrantly?

Thanks Gerry, I think it is just the wording of the article.  Had it said following a reported safety violation that is pending investigation   opposed to "Following a safety violation the airline has already suspended the people in question  it could be read very differently.  To me the latter reads as though they have already determined there is a violation and assigned blame.  I think it is just me being pedantic over the wording though, probably too picky on my part...

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wow..

 

I could say so much more about the eastern world...and its ways...but i like being able to post.. -_-

 

Eastern ways are different, and can appear almost alien at times since many of us are steeped in western culture.  But it's still a rich culture.  Since I work in IT, most of my peers are from India or countries nearby.  Their work ethic is second to none.  They have a willingness to get the job done at all costs--something we sometimes lack in the western world where we crave our leisure time.  I think there's something to be learned from this.  I can't help but admire such a work ethic.  The Air India example is an not an exception.  I know of pilots here in the States who've flown past their destinations due to distractions in the cockpit, not to mention attempting to fly their aircraft while intoxicated. 

 

John

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Director General Arun Mishra of the Directorate General of Civil Aviation (DGCA), confirmed that all four employees had been suspended. "Following a safety violation, the airline has already suspended the people in question. We are conducting a inquiry into the matter," Mishra told Mumbai Mirror

 

DGCA already confirmed...  No benefit of the doubt required.

Dear Psolk,

 

The DGCA has suspended them following a safety violation is established. But what the violation is has not been specified by the DGCA. Just because the MM and ToI have come up with their story as to what happened, that is not necessarily the truth nor the reason the pilots have been suspended. Besides, suspension is based pending an inquiry. Lets wait and see what happens. That is why I say, give the benefit of doubt.

 

I am pretty sure that there may be some underlying truth to some sort of negligence or lax behaviour by the pilots but not as grossly exaggerated by this article.

 

Finally, innocent until proven guilty has more to do with the prosecution establishing guilt beyond reasonable doubt rather than a suspect/defendant being innocent or otherwise.

 

Regards,

 

Dinshaw

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