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Asiana crash probe: South Korea not happy with NTSB disclosures--LA Times

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South Korea not happy. Wonder why?

 

"It's true that captains acted in an authoritarian way in the cockpit in the past, but that's almost nonexistent now," South Korea's top daily newspaper, Chosun Ilbo, quoted an unidentified airline captain as saying Thursday. "It's unimaginable for a captain to ignore the first officer in an emergency." 

 

And the 2nd quote near the beginning of the article. Why would South Korea be unhappy? I wonder how cosy their regulator is with Asiana and KAL?

Herman said analysis of the cockpit voice recorder indicated that until only shortly before impact, the pilots were unaware that the jet was flying far below the target speed and altitude for a safe landing. She added that there was no malfunction of the autopilot, auto-throttle or flight director systems. 

South Korean officials are not happy with the NTSB's presentation of that information, or its disclosure that the pilots ordered the passengers to remain seated for 90 seconds after the plane came to a halt, until the cabin crew noticed a fire.  

 

 

http://www.latimes.com/news/world/worldnow/la-fg-wn-asiana-crash-investigation-20130712,0,1413037.story

 

 

Daniel

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South Korea not happy. Wonder why?

 

"It's true that captains acted in an authoritarian way in the cockpit in the past, but that's almost nonexistent now," South Korea's top daily newspaper, Chosun Ilbo, quoted an unidentified airline captain as saying Thursday. "It's unimaginable for a captain to ignore the first officer in an emergency."

 

 

And the 2nd quote near the beginning of the article. Why would South Korea be unhappy? I wonder how cosy their regulator is with Asiana and KAL?

Herman said analysis of the cockpit voice recorder indicated that until only shortly before impact, the pilots were unaware that the jet was flying far below the target speed and altitude for a safe landing. She added that there was no malfunction of the autopilot, auto-throttle or flight director systems.

 

South Korean officials are not happy with the NTSB's presentation of that information, or its disclosure that the pilots ordered the passengers to remain seated for 90 seconds after the plane came to a halt, until the cabin crew noticed a fire.

 

 

http://www.latimes.com/news/world/worldnow/la-fg-wn-asiana-crash-investigation-20130712,0,1413037.story

 

 

Daniel

 

Who cares if their happy or not the truth is the truth. What the heck do they want, keep this all a secrete so they can save face? This is exactly the problem, three guys sitting in the cockpit two afraid to speak up to save face. You have a jumbo jet plowed into a KSFO runway with three lives lost, there's no face to save. Addressing the issue head on and kill the age old cockpit culture is the best face they can put on and actually be serious about the issue...

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Incompetence usually does cause embarrassment. They should be more concerned with the quality of training and who is really qualified.

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They are suing the TV station for defamation? Really???? I think the defamation is sitting out there in the middle of the KSFO air field (or was) and in a bazillion copies of video on the net that they pretty much brought on themselves. What a bunch of sophomoric management newbs these guys are. They are just further embarrassing themselves. And the U.S. lawyers advising them must be right from the Florida Attorney's General's office; this is about deflection, obscuring, diversion, hide the pea, not defamation. Good grief.

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Uhhh, I think this  (http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/07/15/wit-tu-lo-asiana-to-sue-san-francisco-tv-station-that-aired-phoney-racially-offensive-names/) is what they are suing over. And for good reason. Regardless of what else Asiana may have done, the TV station (and the moron who fed them the false info) is guilty of extremely poor taste and offensive behavior. I'm sure the people seriously hurt and the families of those who didn't survive didn't see much humour in this  :huh:

 

Glenn

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They are suing the TV station for defamation? Really???? I think the defamation is sitting out there in the middle of the KSFO air field (or was) and in a bazillion copies of video on the net that they pretty much brought on themselves. What a bunch of sophomoric management newbs these guys are. They are just further embarrassing themselves. And the U.S. lawyers advising them must be right from the Florida Attorney's General's office; this is about deflection, obscuring, diversion, hide the pea, not defamation. Good grief.

 

 

Why Florida might I ask???

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Uhhh, I think this  (http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/07/15/wit-tu-lo-asiana-to-sue-san-francisco-tv-station-that-aired-phoney-racially-offensive-names/) is what they are suing over. And for good reason. Regardless of what else Asiana may have done, the TV station (and the moron who fed them the false info) is guilty of extremely poor taste and offensive behavior. I'm sure the people seriously hurt and the families of those who didn't survive didn't see much humour in this  :huh:

 

Glenn

 

 

Actually I think the families feel the pilots are morons as well and should be ostracized.  Fun was not made of the passengers but the moronic pilots who had every opportunity to avert this disaster.

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Actually I think the families feel the pilots are morons as well and should be ostracized.  Fun was not made of the passengers but the moronic pilots who had every opportunity to avert this disaster.

Agreed.

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Better not to go there. B)

 

 

I'm curious because there's a few different court cases that are questionable.  The results of this last one not so much...

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I'm curious because there's a few different court cases that are questionable.  The results of this last one not so much...

Like I said, let's not go there.

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Uhhh, I think this  (http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/07/15/wit-tu-lo-asiana-to-sue-san-francisco-tv-station-that-aired-phoney-racially-offensive-names/) is what they are suing over. And for good reason. Regardless of what else Asiana may have done, the TV station (and the moron who fed them the false info) is guilty of extremely poor taste and offensive behavior. I'm sure the people seriously hurt and the families of those who didn't survive didn't see much humour in this  :huh:

 

Glenn

Totally agree!

But it just goes to show that some new casters are just a pretty face put in front of a camera to blurt out whatever the teleprompter scrolls in front of them.  

I mean....if you watched the video, after the 3rd name.....most people watching probably realized that they were not real names.  I mean they had someone create a graphic with the burned out fuse next to the names... he/she had to type in those names.....

Let's see...

1. Sum Tee Wong

2. Wi Tu Lo

By the time I got to number 3, I would have been bringing it to the editor and saying "Do you think all 4 of these names are legit?  If we don't verify our source before we broadcast this, we might look like idiots."

 

They of course were in a rush to be the 1st to release the pilot names...and boy...did they get...won't even say it out of respect to the tragedy associated with this "news" report.

 

Regards,

Steve Dra

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Asiana should be banned from US and European airspace until it provides evidence that it has upped its pilot and crew training. Check rides by FAA/CAA etc should be mandatory. 

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Lets be mature here people. The thread is about South Korea not being happy with the NTSB, not FOX making a stupid mistake (which I don't really want to talk about).

Either start another thread to talk about at or if it doesn't stop I'll ask Tom to lock it.

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Look... Deb Hersman told it like it was; she's not known for mincing words.

 

If the South Koreans didn't like it well, too bad. This isn't about 'saving face', or political correctness... this is about an avoidable aircraft accident which could have been much worse than it was.

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Lets be mature here people. The thread is about South Korea not being happy with the NTSB, not FOX making a stupid mistake (which I don't really want to talk about).

Either start another thread to talk about at or if it doesn't stop I'll ask Tom to lock it.

 

 

News is moving fast and with my second post I had two windows up one showing Asiana prepped to sue the TV Station and your thread here.  We totally took this thread toward Asiana as they are actually trying to sue someone in a time like this.  Maybe they think that'll lesson the financial burden of over 300 law suites.  All of this ties together but frankly South Korea mad about this event when we just saved their #*#* from North Korea is a lesser story at this point.

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I see this kind of 'hey, we're the real victims in all of this' rot in Japan as well although I can't imagine they'd show the poor taste to actually litigate at a time like this.

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Check rides by FAA/CAA etc should be mandatory

 

I'm sure they have their hands full in checking the US crews let alone the plethora of foreign pilots flying in and out.

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I'm sure they have their hands full in checking the US crews let alone the plethora of foreign pilots flying in and out.

No excuse. Check rides should be mandatory.

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Asiana should be banned from US and European airspace until it provides evidence that it has upped its pilot and crew training.

 

I could only find one other fatal passenger crash in 1993 under Asiana passenger operations while I could list at least 20 if not more pilot error crashes between 93 and today from US based airlines. Only 2 crashes in the span of 20 years is a rather impressive record.


No excuse. Check rides should be mandatory.

 

Well then the FAA would probably need to do a mass hiring of check airmen but then again I don't think they would have such jurisdiction on pilots who are licensed by a governing body that is other than the FAA.

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No excuse. Check rides should be mandatory.

The FAA cannot, it's not under it's juristiction, in the same way the IAA cannot check every single pilot flying intro Ireland, we have to trust the other regulators to do their job.

 

The FAA has no authority over foreign carriers. Personally, I am an Irish citizen, licensed by the IAA, in command of an aircraft flying under the Irish Flag, the FAA doesn't come into it other than for their differences document. The have no authority to revoke my license or inspect me, that is the job of the IAA. They can make clear the laws that differ in US airspace from the ICAO convention, and I'll obey then, but that's it. The FAA is there to oversee American Operators, not foreign ones.

 

What needs to be done here is the Korean Aviation Authority (or whatever the correct name is) needs to conduct more thorough checks, and the airline itself needs to be implement proper CRM procedures. If the FAA does not trust the judgement of the KAA then they may ban airlines from Korea from their airspace. If they're not happy with Asiana they can ban them from their airspace, but they cannot revoke licences or inspect pilots of foreign carriers. It's not their remit. They don't have the staff for it.

 

Regards,

Ró.

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Thanks Ro for clearing that up! Europe at some stage banned carriers like Garuda for a while or was it Birgenair? I could be wrong.

I know Garuda has done more silly things than accidents. Like trying to land on highways..... Or towns one hindered kilometres away......

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Yes, thanks for that information, Ro.

 

I wonder if the FAA/CAA/IAA have processes in place upon which they can make an informed decision on whether or not to 'trust' the KAA. Somehow I doubt it.

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