Michal I think many many people preferr paper manuals over pdf.And many know how expensive it

Hej d

Par,Tell me, I am just curious, do you own ANY high-end addon aircraft (say PMDG, Meridian, ATR, Dreamfleet, some PSS...) or you simply refused to purchase them because of the "printing issue"? If you only buy what comes with the paper manual you probably either fly default MSFS airplanes or you only get those products that come with 5-page pdf.Michael J.WinXP-Home SP2,AMD64 3500+,Abit AV8,Radeon X800Pro,36GB Raptor,1GB PC3200,Audigy 2

It's pretty simple. If there were enough people out there prepared to pay the bucks for printed manuals either flight1 or a 3rd party would have them professionally printed and would sell them. As this is not the case, clearly there is not a market for them. billg

No but that don

If the truth be know, I prefer a printed manual too Par. I printed out the RFP 747 manual and I have a stack about 8 inches high. Cost me a laser printer cartridge, and they don't come cheap, hehe. billg

Yes I mean I have the PMDG as well but it

What Michal is trying to say is that a printed manual for the ATR would be a LOT more expnesive then what is offered with the Meridian.More expensive to the point that I would guess hardly anybody would pruchase it.Flight1 would lose money by having to pay the printing costs for the manuals. A lack of printing manual sales would hurt total revenue.In terms of "the bottom line", offering a manual of that magnitude and cost doesn't make any sense.

buy brand new printers with ink cartridges installed...

Actually, many new printers don't include full ink cartridges. The comapnies make most of their money on cartridge/paper purchases. ;)

I find it hard to believe that there are actually people on here who gladly run to the printers with their pdf files and have the manuals printed out at, what, $50 or $60 - then they proudly display them like they're carrying home a prize trophy. This whole "print out your own manual" business is just another example of how customers are being taken to the cleaners by companies, who, of course, pass on the cost of producing the manual to, you, the consumer. If you add it all up, that $30 addon you just bought quickly morphs into $50 or $60 or $70 (price of paper, ink, and wear and tear on the print head). The latest trend seems to be to just let customers download the real POH - company dudes say: he, that's just "as real as it gets;" to which I say: nah, dude, you're just being too lazy to write your own stuff. Reality XP doesn't even bother to write manuals for their avionics - they just point you to the website of the relevant avionics companies. ricardo

>Reality XP doesn't even bother>to write manuals for their avionics - they just point you to>the website of the relevant avionics companies. And it makes absolute sense. What's the point of trying to write a manual better than the original?. What a waste of time. If you can't handle reading the real manual then you are definitely not ready to operate this like-real equipment - it is for mature adults only. Nobody is going to include cartoons or dumb-down information so kids like you can play big pilots. *:-*Michael J.WinXP-Home SP2,AMD64 3500+,Abit AV8,Radeon X800Pro,36GB Raptor,1GB PC3200,Audigy 2

>>Reality XP doesn't even bother>>to write manuals for their avionics - they just point you to>>the website of the relevant avionics companies. >>And it makes absolute sense. What's the point of trying to>write a manual better than the original?. What a waste of>time. If you can't handle reading the real manual then you are>definitely not ready to operate this like-real equipment - it>is for mature adults only. Nobody is going to include cartoons>or dumb-down information so kids like you can play big pilots.>*:-*>>Michael J.>WinXP-Home SP2,AMD64 3500+,Abit AV8,Radeon X800Pro,36GB>Raptor,1GB PC3200,Audigy 2This is just the kind of brain dead response I so dearly appreciate. You say it yourself, it's "like-real equipment," i.e., not the REAL thing. I expect manufacturers to write manuals for the products they have produced, especially if these products SIMULATE the real thing, i.e., do not include the full functionality of the real instrument.

I'm considering to buy that product..

Good to hear that, and guess what?You will also get a good chunk of the real ATR's AFM, an item that sells for some $1500, included at no extra cost. Yes, that's what it sells for and, unlike other manuals, you cannot get it from Essco either.Ultimately, you can decide just how much of our manual you need to print out, but I thought it best to provide as much as possible in order to provide the greatest value to the customer, both when it comes to operating our ATR, and for educational value as to learning about the real aircraft. My thanks go to ATR, who were most kind to let us include a great deal of this very expensive manual in the ATR product.:-)Regards,http://www.dreamfleet2000.com/gfx/images/F...R_FORUM_LOU.jpg

>I find it hard to believe that there are actually people on>here who gladly run to the printers with their pdf files and>have the manuals printed out at, what, $50 or $60 - then they>proudly display them like they're carrying home a prize>trophy. >>This whole "print out your own manual" business is just>another example of how customers are being taken to the>cleaners by companies, who, of course, pass on the cost of>producing the manual to, you, the consumer. If you add it all>up, that $30 addon you just bought quickly morphs into $50 or>$60 or $70 (price of paper, ink, and wear and tear on the>print head). >>The latest trend seems to be to just let customers download>the real POH - company dudes say: he, that's just "as real as>it gets;" to which I say: nah, dude, you're just being too>lazy to write your own stuff. Reality XP doesn't even bother>to write manuals for their avionics - they just point you to>the website of the relevant avionics companies. >>ricardo1. I find it hard to believe that OTHER people printing out the manual THEY paid for is a topic of interest to you.2. Nothing wrong wiht taking a picture of a manual you printed out to show its size. Nothing wrong at all.3. The Real ATR has NO .pdf manual to DL. I don't feal like paying for a manual and shipping for a GAUGE. Thanks. Bye.4. I like printing out my manuals. I can write notes in them, I can spill coffee in them, and I can slip and tear the page/s by accident. All I have to do is REPRINT that one or so pages I want new copies of.5. Not providing a manual keeps costs way down and opens up product availabilty to more people (since its cheaper...WOW, what a concept!).6. Not everybody wants to buy a product and wait for it to be shipped just so they can have a manual (a manual that can be printed out with a little patience).7. Too lazy? That's rich! I guess they ATR team was REALLY lazy during that 15,000 hours of development time and trips to the ATR factory? LOLLazy? Riiiggghhhtttt.Product 1: ATR, w/.pdf manual. = $34.99 + $30 or so dollars to print my own.Product 2: ATR, w/printed ATR manual = $1534.99WHAT A TOUGH DECISION....If I get the printed one I don't have to buy the extra cartridge or paper. Gee...waht will I do?!?!?It is apparent you do not know much about add-on development, so I'll end it there.