>, i.e., do not include>the full functionality of the real instrument. Most of those DO simulate FULL functionality. But for kids like yourself these are probably too complicated toys anyway - stay away. Michael J.WinXP-Home SP2,AMD64 3500+,Abit AV8,Radeon X800Pro,36GB Raptor,1GB PC3200,Audigy 2

Why not take you PDF file down to your local friend print shop, they will print out the manual for you professianally, and bind it up for you for a small cost.Best of both worlds.Dan.

With regards to all the postings about printing the manual, this has obviously been thought about by the guys who developed it. If you look on the very first page of the manual, there in big black letters it gives you full authorization to take the manual to a professional printer and have it reproduced that way. IMO, you are getting the best deal.1. You are not paying a huge amount more for the printed manual2. You dont have to wait for the product being deliverd3. You only have to print what you really need4. You can have it printed by a professional if you so wishI am sure there are more pro's and probably some cons as well.http://www.avsim.com/pages/0100/avsim_sig.jpg

It is quite cheap to get the manual professionally printed. Example7 Cents per page x 500 pages = 0.07x500 = $35 B/W Plus $4.95 set up charge. Not too badThen another $10 for a binder...Now this is where the problems start for 500 color pages90 cents per page x 500 pages = 0.90x500 = $450 :-eekI'll just stick with black and white.Prices are in $AUD

Hello,Is it possible to talk about the real product please instead of filling 4 pages about a manual (or at least talk about the content of the manual !)... Can we have some fair comments by people who bought the product, share their experiences so we can all make our own judgement whether to buy or not !

>>Why don't you ask Flight1 directly (on their forum), why>they>>don't offer this choice?>>>Because my original post was only an answer to "oqvist", who>initially whished for a printed manual. :-roll>>And I am not talking about something printed on a $150 inc jet>printer. I am talking about a high quality high gloss printed>manual in a slic binder. ;-)Staffan, They do offer it as a choice. The first few pages of the manual give authority - and guidance - on best printing practices. And both Flight 1 and ATR give explicit permission for a commercial printing of the manual. So just print it out yourself or have a professional print shop do it for you. That way the ony person incurring the cost is YOU rather than bits of the cost having to be passed to all simmers, whether they want a printed manual or not. There is already a thread in the ATR forum about this, and the results can be as slick as you want to spend.Not only is this the fairest way, it is the ONLY way. How else would a downloaded product offer a 500 page manual?It's time to get real Steffan. Your arguments about printed manuals might have had some justification when they were 5 or 50 pages. But 500?Allcott

>Hello,>>>Is it possible to talk about the real product please instead>of filling 4 pages about a manual (or at least talk about the>content of the manual !)... Can we have some fair comments by>people who bought the product, share their experiences so we>can all make our own judgement whether to buy or not !>>I think you may have to wait a while Thomas. Just reading the maual could take a week, getting up to speed on the package another week to a month, and writing up the results in a comprehensive fashion another 2-3 months. Check back in February;-)All you need to know is, it is the best package ever for FS. But not the simplest. Obviously. We're all on the learning curve.Allcott

Are you sure Ricardo? last time I've checked I've noticed that all Reality XP products are shipped with a User's Manual covering all the features. They are even downloadable for free from the Reality XP web site!!http://www.reality-xp.com/products/fla-manual/index.htm(above is the link to the download page for the Apollo User's Manual)!There is a special mention for the Garmin GNS 530 simulation: it uses the Garmin Trainer which is a 100% simulation of the Garmin GNS 530 so IN ADDITION of the Reality XP User's Manual, you are given the choice to download the original manufacturer manual!The sames goes with the Meridian, for which the STEC 55X, the Meggitt Avionics EFIS and the GNS530 are so close to the real avionics, that in addition to the User's Manual (THICK already), you are given the choice to ALSO download the original manufacturer manuals!I consider this not a failure of any sort, on the contrary, it is a tribute to the authenticity and the quality of these products!Hope this helps!

"But not the simplest"LOL, that wins the understatement of the week award. :) I got my very own ATR72-500 last evening and I can give a few preliminary thoughts after having sat in the cockpit for a few minutes with my eyes glazing over. :) First, it is unbelievably complex. I have not a clue what I'm doing (generally, I tend to stick with the nice simple GA planes like the Archer ;) ). It's going to take me a year to fly the thing properly (as opposed to hitting ctrl-E and barely getting it off the ground just to see how it is in the air for a minute). But it looks fabulous and it seems to run alright on my P4-1.8 w/768megs of ram and Geforce4Ti4200 system (although I'm using the dxt3 textures for the VC and have also converted the exterior textures too - still looks great though). Theres no doubt this is an incredibly complete and richly detailed add-on and I'm looking forward to learning what all them buttons and doo-dads is fer...:)

The argument that you save money by getting an addon with pdf manual don

The problem is that the developer has no idea how many manuals they will need to print really and the "bulk" savings you are referring to would require they print a certain number, and once having done so theres no way to garantee half of what they print won't end up sitting in boxes in the warehouse becuase few people are willing to actually pay the extra 60 bucks or whatever they'd have to charge for a nicely bound professionally printed 500 page book - and of course the cost of anything printed and not sold will eventually make its way to the rest of us. I'm perfectly happy having the pdf and the option to print it however I want.

Boy did this thread fly offtopic!Thank goodness I don't fly for a VA who uses the ATR, or else I'd be stuck shelling out more money. Also, thank goodness I have a computer position here at work - along with my own personal HP CLJ4600+Duplexer. When I need my manuals, vaboom - duplexed color laser output (I do use my own paper, though).

The ATR is breaking the back of Flight 1's server. Yesterday I had no trouble checking out the site. . . this morning I can't get a page to load.-T

I'd be totally miffed if I had to pay an extra cent for a written manual. The answer is already provided in the form of.pdf manuals. Read onscreen for those that want that, simply print out, bind and keep for those that want that. What's to discuss?I don't even like the .pdf format - it's too limiting, but you don't find me whinging about it because of the few that might want to print it out, and it's perfect for that. Oh wait.What I wonder is whether the need for accommodating these infuriatingly small numbers of manual-swotters is actually holding back the development of better interactive online manuals which can interract with the sim and the user, sort of like a co-pilot who stays quiet most of the time, but is around to offer expertise and advice when you need him. It would be nice to have a friendly voice pipe up and offer realtime help in programming the FMC, it would be very nice to have the manuals with active graphics to show me the button sequences and move my mouse to the relevant hotspots in `let us help` interactivity.The ATR needs a 500 page manual because it needs to accommodate every type of purchaser. Not everyone needs a permanent reminder about IAS, how to open the doors, or how to flush the lavatory. I'll read it once online and learn. The few pages I do need to print out I can. Allcott

Alcott what