Sorry I wasn't clear, what airline merge?

AF/KLM.

 

Regards,

Ró.

AF/KLM.

 

Regards,

Ró.

 

 

O.K. from everything you've said here plus your example with AF/KLM things are definently better in Europe than in the use for an aspiring airline pilot.  In the US one would be better served being an a Alaskan Bush pilot versus dealing with the garbage US airlines put people through.  

 

Just for clarification what was so great about the AF/KLM merger for employees and pilots?

Just for clarification what was so great about the AF/KLM merger for employees and pilots?

T&Cs remained the same as before the merger, which were pretty good to begin with, and no layoffs came with the merger. In addition, the combined airline was stronger and better able to compete with others, meaning longer term job security for employees in both AF and KLM.

 

Regards,

Ró.

T&Cs remained the same as before the merger, which were pretty good to begin with, and no layoffs came with the merger. In addition, the combined airline was stronger and better able to compete with others, meaning longer term job security for employees in both AF and KLM.

 

Regards,

Ró.

 

Have you ever thought about this for regional carriers, 

 

I was looking at these unit cost for aircraft and you take that on top of passengers you carry no one in their right mind would pay someone $20,000 a year to fly these expensive machines.  Greed is really something:

 

CRJ - US$24-39.7 million 

 

ERJ - US$16-22 million

 

EMB - US$28.5 - $47.0 million

American politicians don't care about people. They care election day and after that they do whatever the highest paying lobbyists want. Doesn't matter which party. They are exactly the same. One pretends they care more about people.

So true! They tell the masses what they want to hear then do nothing. Both party's suck

So true! They tell the masses what they want to hear then do nothing. Both party's suck

 

 

As an African American Obama is the biggest disappointment (so called president for all the people).  As of late how he handled that Trayvon mess and his insulting silence on the WWII Vet and Australian Baseball player.  Truly shameful and embarrassing, now back on topic...

Have you ever thought about this for regional carriers, 

 

I was looking at these unit cost for aircraft and you take that on top of passengers you carry no one in their right mind would pay someone $20,000 a year to fly these expensive machines.  Greed is really something:

 

I agree, but there is another aspect you are missing - that people are WILLING to work for those wages.  Companies will get away with paying as low as possible.  This is nothing new and I'm still surprised as to why people run around yelling that companies are greedy.

 

It is up to the people to decide what they are worth.  I took the choice to not go to a regional carrier and work for poverty level wages and 0 job security, but that's just me.

As an African American Obama is the biggest disappointment (so called president for all the people).  As of late how he handled that Trayvon mess and his insulting silence on the WWII Vet and Australian Baseball player.  Truly shameful and embarrassing, now back on topic...

 

Personally, I agree.  I think his entire tenure has been nothing short of an absolute joke and won't be surprised if he goes down as one of the worst presidents we have had; not only about social issues (Benghazi, anyone?) but the changes that he has made to the fundamentals and values this country was created on.

I agree, but there is another aspect you are missing - that people are WILLING to work for those wages.  Companies will get away with paying as low as possible - it is up to the people to decide what they are worth.  

But apparently they're not allowed to do that and decide what they are worth. There's a ban on striking there so even if they weren't willing, they're not allowed strike about it.  :mellow:

 

Regards,

Ró.

But apparently they're not allowed to do that, there's a ban on striking there, so even if they weren't willing, they're not allowed strike about it.  :mellow:

 

Regards,

Ró.

 

They don't have to take the job in the first place.  They full well knew what the pay and QOL was going to be before they signed the dotted line to get hired.

They don't have to take the job in the first place.  They full well knew what the pay and QOL was going to be before they signed the dotted line to get hired.

Right, so then they can all quit at once and demand better pay or they won't continue to provide their services because they think they're worth more than what they're paid. Oh wait, that's a strike...  :rolleyes:

 

Besides, someone who has all that debt fro training hanging over them is not in a position to say "Work for that? Nah, I'm worth more than that."   :Sigh:  

 

Regards,

Ró.

 

 

Go back to the PAN AM model in it's glory days and make flying a true experience this is where Virgin America is gaining ground.  Give 4 star service instead of 3 starts to bring people end.  Make an investment in quality food and service without nickle and dimming people and let it pay off over time.  Rebuild what made flying great so many years ago.

 

And if you look at Virgin America, they are not making money. You cannot compete on the same price field, and not have similar service. If you take a look at every airline that has tried to provide more service for the same price, they all went belly up.

Right, so then they can all quit at once and demand better pay or they won't continue to provide their services because they think they're worth more than what they're paid. Oh wait, that's a strike...  :rolleyes:

 

I didn't say they should all quit nor did I say they should go on strike. 

 

Besides, someone who has all that debt fro training hanging over them is not in a position to say "Work for that? Nah, I'm worth more than that."   :Sigh:

 

Perhaps they should have thought about that before they went into debt for flight training, eh?  Or even better yet, don't finance way over your head so that you are forced into such a position.  That is one of the primary problems with pay and QOL life - pilots go into massive debt financing flight training and then they are forced to take a job (at any wage) so that they can start paying off the debt.  From there they are forced to work at these poverty level wages and there is always someone willing to undercut the next guy in line so that they keep their job.  It's a race to the bottom and it won't stop until people start to realize they are worth more than that.  We all know the companies stance - if they can get away with it they will do it.  They don't care what person is sitting in the seat as long as they are legal.

 

If people want to take the job making that low level of a wage than that is completely their decision, but at the same time they really have no avenue to complain 'that companies are greedy' when they willingly took the job in the first place full well knowing what pay and QOL they'd be making before they even started flight training.

Right, so then they can all quit at once and demand better pay or they won't continue to provide their services because they think they're worth more than what they're paid. Oh wait, that's a strike... :rolleyes:

 

Besides, someone who has all that debt fro training hanging over them is not in a position to say "Work for that? Nah, I'm worth more than that." :Sigh:

 

Regards,

Ró.

No, that would be a walkout. There is no coming back from that. That is really the only threat left.

 

What most pilots in the US would say is people should seek life careers in other line of work. Don't even bother to start the flight training. There are better things to do with your lives.

Looking at this thread, it came to my mind that so many of us want capitalism and a free economy. The funny part is that this thread is saying that we should over regulate, and control everything. Having a government that is in total control of the economy does not work, it leads to corruption. If two airlines want to merge, they should be able to, without the government coming in to stop them.

 

I am just waiting for someone to say that if we do not block the merger, we will end up like Russia, then we really will be back in the 1960's, and this thread can become number one on avsim.

Looking at this thread, it came to my mind that so many of us want capitalism and a free economy. The funny part is that this thread is saying that we should over regulate, and control everything. Having a government that is in total control of the economy does not work, it leads to corruption. If two airlines want to merge, they should be able to, without the government coming in to stop them.

 

I am just waiting for someone to say that if we do not block the merger, we will end up like Russia, then we really will be back in the 1960's, and this thread can become number one on avsim.

 

Oh...oh... don't forget deregulation!  I agree with your viewpoint - nothing good ever comes of the government managing anything.  Let the economy, supply and demand control the direction that the companies take.