And Ro, these are the steps, each step of negotiation, mediation, or arbitration can take months to years. And after that, the government can still step in and say that you cannot strike. This is what we do here.

 

http://www.raillaborfacts.org/collective-bargaining-under-the-railway-labor-act-new/

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railway_Labor_Act

 

All this why it's terrible to let these companies get so big. You only make a bad situation much worse where employees have no bargaining chip. Anytime the government can step in and stop a strike because a company is too big to fail is very bad...

All this why it's terrible to let these companies get so big. You only make a bad situation much worse where employees have no bargaining chip. Anytime the government can step in and stop a strike because a company is too big to fail is very bad...

Money (bribes) pay off for these corporations. I'm so disillusioned with our federal government. At one point the unions and the pilots expected too much. Now its total warfare between management and labor. Nobody wins.(except the fired executives).

Money (bribes) pay off for these corporations. I'm so disillusioned with our federal government. At one point the unions and the pilots expected too much. Now its total warfare between management and labor. Nobody wins.(except the fired executives).

 

It's so screwed up companies that have millions of people's lives in their hands each year (American Airline companies is what I'm referring to here) and these are the games they play. Pilots have far more responsibility in the souls they have on board than the suites could ever have yet their value has diminished so much. I'm with Rónán in feeling like something is really screwed up here. Many of us chose different careers instead of our passion for one reason or another. For me the access growing up wasn't there and what it took to be an airline pilot was so great. I had no idea starting out after thousands of dollars and ridicules amounts of time training that starting out would only pay me $20,000 (Sallie Mae want payments on student loans every month). That's criminal to expect so much and have the responsibility to keep 65+ people safe every day at 36,000ft for so little money. Next comes you build up time on an airline and they go out of business and/or screw your benefits over. It's unreal what I've read in this thread. This is unfeathered capitalism that people have had a problem with for so many years. There has to be a mixture of socialism and capitalism to temper down mans natural instinct to screw his fellow man. This is why one political party is loosing majorly in the US. We're being told Unions are bad but we wouldn't have the rights we have now if it weren't for them years ago. We have to be on top of them too but forget sick time and holidays if Unions had never been created. One party feels companies would do the right thing if employee rights laws would get out of the way. Reading this thread concerning a field many of us would love to be in is truly a let down as to the real reality of how quality and well deserving people are treated. Very sad...

It's so screwed up companies that have millions of people's lives in their hands each year (American Airline companies is what I'm referring to here) and these are the games they play. Pilots have far more responsibility in the souls they have on board than the suites could ever have yet their value has diminished so much. I'm with Rónán in feeling like something is really screwed up here. Many of us chose different careers instead of our passion for one reason or another. For me the access growing up wasn't there and what it took to be an airline pilot was so great. I had no idea starting out after thousands of dollars and ridicules amounts of time training that starting out would only pay me $20,000 (Sallie Mae want payments on student loans every month). That's criminal to expect so much and have the responsibility to keep 65+ people safe every day at 36,000ft for so little money. Next comes you build up time on an airline and they go out of business and/or screw your benefits over. It's unreal what I've read in this thread. This is unfeathered capitalism that people have had a problem with for so many years. There has to be a mixture of socialism and capitalism to temper down mans natural instinct to screw his fellow man. This is why one political party is loosing majorly in the US. We're being told Unions are bad but we wouldn't have the rights we have now if it weren't for them years ago. We have to be on top of them too but forget sick time and holidays if Unions had never been created. One party feels companies would do the right thing if employee rights laws would get out of the way. Reading this thread concerning a field many of us would love to be in is truly a let down as to the real reality of how quality and well deserving people are treated. Very sad...

I agree. I'm conservative, but I have seen management trying to take advantage of job shortages while the government sits idle. The danger is that the best and brightest will no longer choose the aviation field and opt to be engineers or whatever. I have friends that have been flying for many years and can't wait to quit. The common thread is "its not fun anymore." The other question I would like to see answered: How can such a wealthy nation let people die because they can't afford healthcare? The list of questions just keeps growing. We have a big mess. I still would not choose any other place to live in spite of the peoblems.

I agree. I'm conservative, but I have seen management trying to take advantage of job shortages while the government sits idle. The danger is that the best and brightest will no longer choose the aviation field and opt to be engineers or whatever. I have friends that have been flying for many years and can't wait to quit. The common thread is "its not fun anymore." The other question I would like to see answered: How can such a wealthy nation let people die because they can't afford healthcare? The list of questions just keeps growing. We have a big mess. I still would not choose any other place to live in spite of the peoblems.

 

 

Agreed, you just have to be smart about what's going on around you.  For the record I'm conservative too.. 

What you're failing to realize is that this block will stifle competition, it is not a result of a sudden urge to do good by the DOJ, it's a result of lobbyists. Despite popular belief both parties want the same things for this country, overspending and over reaching into foreign affairs. The rest are symantics.

 

It's not about competition or party loyalties, it's about the $ going into the right pockets.

The ironic thing about this merger is that nobody wanted it more than the rank and file employees of both companies. The American employees wanted to get rid of their management. And the Airways employees would have received substantial increases in pay and benefits. Now all that is in doubt.

The ironic thing about this merger is that nobody wanted it more than the rank and file employees of both companies. The American employees wanted to get rid of their management. And the Airways employees would have received substantial increases in pay and benefits. Now all that is in doubt.

People have a history of drinking the cool-aide and voting against their best interest. What merger do you know of that's benefited anybody but the top level CEO's and VP's. Second how many people are now against unions even though people fought and died for the right of employee representation. Every worker benefit all of us enjoy is because of the standards unions put in place. Companies wouldn't allow us any rights without them. Go look at how Google operates these days. They have many things in place so you never have a reason to leave the campus. It's done in a slick way but they would like you to work around the clock weekends included. People with families find it hard to find a balance. A quick look at how Walmart treats their workers in China should tell you something...

What merger do you know of that's benefited anybody but the top level CEO's and VP's.

EADS / Airbus?

A large company that is now able to compete against Boeing, where as the previous small companies were unable to produce aircraft in the numbers Boeing was.

 

Regard,

Ró.

People have a history of drinking the cool-aide and voting against their best interest. What merger do you know of that's benefited anybody but the top level CEO's and VP's. Second how many people are now against unions even though people fought and died for the right of employee representation. Every worker benefit all of us enjoy is because of the standards unions put in place. Companies wouldn't allow us any rights without them. Go look at how Google operates these days. They have many things in place so you never have a reason to leave the campus. It's done in a slick way but they would like you to work around the clock weekends included. People with families find it hard to find a balance. How Walmart treats their workers in China should tell you something...

I'm pretty sure this merger would have at least benefited the US Airways employees. At least initially with the pay raises scheduled to occur with the merger. After that, who knows?

EADS / Airbus?

A large company that is now able to compete against Boeing, where as the previous small companies were unable to produce aircraft in the numbers Boeing was.

 

Regard,

Ró.

Sorry I wasn't clear, what airline merge?

 

 

I'm pretty sure this merger would have at least benefited the US Airways employees. At least initially with the pay raises scheduled to occur with the merger. After that, who knows?

Delta promised allot with the NWA merge and took it all back after they merged...

Dillon,

Which pay raises are those? The pilots at US Airways were in line to get substantial raises. The rest of us will be left to scratch for the crumbs. My group (Fleet Service) has been in contract negotiations for over three years with nothing to show for it. The mechanic and related group is in the same boat. If we merge with American, there will have to be joint contracts negotiated for each group. That brings American's bankruptcy contracts into play as the new baseline. Hardly a positive for those of us at US Airways. Airline executives promise a lot of things in the process of trying to get a merger approved. Once they get that approval, all bets are off.

EADS / Airbus?

A large company that is now able to compete against Boeing, where as the previous small companies were unable to produce aircraft in the numbers Boeing was.

 

Regard,

Ró.

 

 

Rónán to show you how insane the industry is and how unfeathered greed makes for stupid decisions, what's the price tag for a CRJ, ERJ, and EMB aircraft?

People have a history of drinking the cool-aide and voting against their best interest. What merger do you know of that's benefited anybody but the top level CEO's and VP's. Second how many people are now against unions even though people fought and died for the right of employee representation. Every worker benefit all of us enjoy is because of the standards unions put in place. Companies wouldn't allow us any rights without them. Go look at how Google operates these days. They have many things in place so you never have a reason to leave the campus. It's done in a slick way but they would like you to work around the clock weekends included. People with families find it hard to find a balance. A quick look at how Walmart treats their workers in China should tell you something...

 

I understand what you are saying but I don't get your point.  Companies don't merge to benefit employees - never have, never will.  As an employee, it is then your choice to leave, if you so desire.  Companies merge in an attempt to garner more market share and drive higher profits for the shareholders.  Don't like? You know where the door is.  That is the unfortunate world we live in but it also gives you the freedoms to make those decisions.  However, to an employee, it is not dissimilar to the way the company would operate if it hadn't merged in the first place.

 

While I don't work at US Airways or American, I think the US Airways employees would have a better shot of increasing their QOL if they were to support a merger with American.  I believe the best thing they can realistically hope for is to help American gain more market share and hope it gets passed down to the employees.  It is no secret that US Airways employee contracts are nearly bottom of the barrel.  Those US Airways employee groups already know where they stand with regards to current management, so I don't see what they think they're going to be losing out on by not merging.

 

As far as the DOJ blocking the merger from going through, I don't believe there is any chance in hell they can stop it.  The laws in which the DOJ is claiming the merger would infringe on are hopeful at best, and since the DOJ has since allowed the other legacies to merge, they simply won't have any ground to stand on in court.  They would effectively be denouncing American and US Airways to 2nd rate airlines permanently (more-so US Airways than American).  They wouldn't be able to compete in the long term on the same level as the other legacies or majors.  I think the DOJ is simply trying to save some face - primarily involving Eric Holder.

There isn't worst fight that the one you don't put out, But I agree by facts that is the safest though.

 

Cheers,