Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

DOGANG KIM

Hard to control Minimum and BARO knob.

Recommended Posts

(Sorry for my poor English.)

 

In the NGX, it's easy and fast for controling BARO and minimums of EFIS using mouse wheel.

 

But 777 is hard. Mouse wheel doesn't work.

 

And mouse Right/Left button click response is slow.

 

The keycommand is also hard to use.

 

There are "FAST RATE" keycommand.

 

So If you want fast increase or decrease BARO, you must hold down two keys at same time.. LOL

 

Using only one key increases or decreases numbers very slowly.. 

 

I don't know why PMDG make this.

 

It's very not comfy.

 

 

I want just mouse wheel or fast response of key command..like NGX.

 

 

 

efis.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Help AVSIM continue to serve you!
Please donate today!

its in the introduction pdf..... something like left click and hold and move your mouse left or right to change the values.... anyways read the manuals for detailed explanation

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I do not like it at all. It's ok to accurately model a switch movement, but it was bad idea to disable scroll wheel.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I do not like it at all. It's ok to accurately model a switch movement, but it was bad idea to disable scroll wheel.

So your a 777 expert? The knob doesn't allow you turn it, it's a three position switch. As I mentioned in the other post, please read the Introduction. :-)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

its in the introduction pdf..... something like left click and hold and move your mouse left or right to change the values.... anyways read the manuals for detailed explanation

I know. But It's not comfy and not accurate.

 

It spend more more  time than NGX style.

 

What is reality? I don't have real 777 style knob in my desk.

 

Fast and accurate is reality for me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So your a 777 expert? The knob doesn't allow you turn it, it's a three position switch. As I mentioned in the other post, please read the Introduction. :-)

Yes I am. I never said it allows you to turn it, and it's animated correctly but click and drag interface is extremely unintuitive, and I have had very hard time to dial baro and minima. I would like scroll interface back.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So your a 777 expert? The knob doesn't allow you turn it, it's a three position switch. As I mentioned in the other post, please read the Introduction. :-)

 

Ok... I know there are three position of knob. It's not a just 360 dial.

 

But we all don't have physically knob. We use keyboard or mouse or joystick. (BTW who have 777 replica controler maybe happy with this)

 

Anyway almost we dont have real knob.

 

So "HOLDING KEYBOARD BUTTON" changes number slowly at first, then after changes a lot of numbers. This simple style is nessesery for FS user.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Agree, the new way in no way simulates the real spring loaded type sitch in the ac, we are after all holding a mouse in front of a screen doing the job of 2 pilots, so it should be easier to change these settings like the 737. After my first flight today, this is my only major gripe with the aircraft.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's actually a lot faster once you get used to it.

 

...but no, it's a change.  I don't like change.  OLD WAY PLS!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's actually a lot faster once you get used to it.

 

...but no, it's a change.  I don't like change.  OLD WAY PLS!!!

It's not about change. It's about trying to simulate something that cannot be simulated without proper hardware. As I said, it's great they recognized real behavior, but most of us do not have efis panel at home, so they should leave option to use scroll.

 

Trying to set QNH: hold right click, it moves so slow. I drag, it jumps 30hPa up. now I want to move it back; left click hold, it's slow, drag it a little bit, it jumps 30hPa down. Frustrated. Holding right click and waiting to reach correct hPa, 1 by 1.   :t0115: Leave it alone and order "F/O set my baro altimeter NOW!" (pressing B )   <_<

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you REALLY don't want use the wheel (I agree, mouse wheel capability would be nice though), you can always use the CDU to type it in with the backup EFIS controller mode ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you REALLY don't want use the wheel (I agree, mouse wheel capability would be nice though), you can always use the CDU to type it in with the backup EFIS controller mode ;)

That's a great idea! Completely forgot about that feature!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 


It's about trying to simulate something that cannot be simulated without proper hardware.

 

You're going to get the same precision with the hardware because it's going to be commanding the same rates that the mouse drag would.  It's all about getting used to the change.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You're going to get the same precision with the hardware because it's going to be commanding the same rates that the mouse drag would.  It's all about getting used to the change.

Well, I'm not 100% how that switch works IRL: Is it preprogrammed with 2 speeds - slow and fast, or rate of change is dynamically adjusted according to switch input force?

 

In any case, I disagree that hardware would give me same precision. For example take a pencil and sign yourself at peace of paper, then open paint and sign yourself using mouse. Compare.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So your a 777 expert? The knob doesn't allow you turn it, it's a three position switch. As I mentioned in the other post, please read the Introduction. :-)

 

The knob itself may not turn in the real world, but there are compromises we must make in flight simulator.  Just as PMDG has done with the landing lights and if you mouse wheel click the lights it moves them all at once - it is a compromise.

 

Click, hold and move the mouse is just very unintuitive in the simulator.  Not only that but the fact that you have to left or right click, hold and drag to move it up or down.  Heck, it would've been more "accurate" to hold the left or right mouse button and rotate the mouse wheel to move the setting.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 


For example take a pencil and sign yourself at peace of paper, then open paint and sign yourself using mouse. Compare.

 

Poor comparison, but nice try.

 

Pen and paper is infinitely variable - it has multiple dimensions.

 

Hardware with two detents - slow and fast - limits your dimensions laterally.

Clicking and clicking and dragging (simulating the two detents) limits you to the same lateral dimensions.  Granted, you lose tactile feel without detents, but there's a more direct comparison between those two than your signature example.

 

You're welcome to continue attempting to justify the resistance to change, but it's changed.  Adapt, work around, or fall behind.


Click, hold and move the mouse is just very unintuitive in the simulator.  Not only that but the fact that you have to left or right click, hold and drag to move it up or down.  Heck, it would've been more "accurate" to hold the left or right mouse button and rotate the mouse wheel to move the setting.

 

I fail to see how that would be more accurate...see above.

 

The odd part about the brain is that it will go to great lengths to justify resistance to change, even when that justification actually outweighs the amount of work required in adapting.

 

See: Lost Remote Control

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

You're welcome to continue attempting to justify the resistance to change, but it's changed.  Adapt, work around, or fall behind.

I'm going to use B and/or CDU EFIS control. no way to use that unergonomic interface.   B)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's a great idea! Completely forgot about that feature!

Glad I could help!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We ask for realism, get realism from PMDG,  then we moan because it does not suit our mouse clicks? Ironic!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We ask for realism, get realism from PMDG,  then we moan because it does not suit our mouse clicks? Ironic!

 

If you enjoy realism why you use hardware joystick/yoke to fly when there is virtual yoke. Just grab it with your mouse and fly in that way. Same for throttle.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm going to use B and/or CDU EFIS control. no way to use that unergonomic interface.   B)

 

Option B - workaround.  Fair enough!

 

 

We ask for realism, get realism from PMDG,  then we moan because it does not suit our mouse clicks? Ironic!

 

haha - yep.

If you enjoy realism why you use hardware joystick/yoke to fly when there is virtual yoke. Just grab it with your mouse and fly in that way. Same for throttle.

 

Your comparisons are getting weaker and weaker...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Option B - workaround.  Fair enough!

 

 

 

haha - yep.

 

Your comparisons are getting weaker and weaker...

I admit, the first comparison is much better.

 

Anyway, for most of us (who do not own complete hardware cockpit) interface with simulator is not realistic at all, I mean, we use mouse to interact with cockpit - ridiculous. In such extreme unrealistic interface, they are trying to enforce us using mouse in the most unintuitive way I can imagine. The only reason I do not want to buy X Plane is lack of ability to use scroll at knobs/switches. Thankfully, in T7 there are just 2 "faulty" switches and I can live with that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Personally I'd prefer the option to have both scroll option and the click and hold option. I keep over shooting, then undershooting, then overshooting, then undershooting etc. etc. Much easier in the NGX, but maybe I'm just stuck in my ways...  :P

 

Regards,

Ró.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We ask for realism, get realism from PMDG,  then we moan because it does not suit our mouse clicks? Ironic!

 

Except the interface with this switch is still not "true to life"; and in fact, without real hardware, it can't be in the simulator.  This is a "best we could think to model this oddly engaged round-dial knob and still not make it a traditional round-dial knob" situation.  The only problem with creating an "oddly engaged round-dial knob" in this fashion inside the simulator is that it makes it very unintuitive; and if you go past your desired setting and have to go back the other way - God help you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites