apologies my mistake I misread this. just one thing though watching my air austral dvd the captain was using 430 nm circles not 420 I noticed as he discussed it

 

 

cheers.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

kav

You can also take a look at this

 

http://forum.aerosoft.com/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_id=44770

PFPX seems so be using 437 nm for the 60 minute rings for ETOPS entry/exit points. If I set the airports in the fix pages with 437 nm rings they are spot on like the PFPX flightplan.

in my pfpx there is no etops 60 option for the 777lr how did you get this?

 

 

cheers

 

 

 

 

 

 

kav

apologies my mistake I misread this. just one thing though watching my air austral dvd the captain was using 430 nm circles not 420 I noticed as he discussed it cheers. kav

 

The 420nm rule, is a general rule. It is NOT suggested by Boeing.

It is left to the operator and approved by its regulatory agency.

Just to give you an idea, with 130 B777 on its fleet (and counting..) Emirates is the biggest 777 operator and they worked out 420kts (to be on the safe side) to be their single engine speed for ETOPS ops, which in turns is translated into 420nm circles.

Other operator may choose 430 or even 437 (although it sounds extremely weird to me, but...hey, what to do??)

I see thanks for explaining

 

 

 

kav

I read somewhere that the 777 is etops 330 approved is this correct obviously airline depending

Yep, saw an informative video from Air New Zealand about the 330 mins certification for their 777s.

Guys, just to make sure..

ETOPS certification is just a... CERTIFICATION.

It doesn't mean that the 777 CANNOT fly longer than 207 or 330 minutes in single engine ops.

The 777 can take-off, climb, cruise, descend, go-around and land 20hrs later with only one engine operative.

 

The 180, 207 or 330mins certification is just a value an operator chooses in order to make its operations economical and efficient depending on the routes he flyes.

So why not choose the 330mins straight away?

Because it is DAMN expensive, much more than the 207 and much much more than the 180mins.

Besides, the operator has to have immaculate records of engine failures and so on.

I read somewhere that the 777 is etops 330 approved is this correct obviously airline depending

Correct however only Air New Zealand has taken this option up. Very handy for long transpacific routes.

Cheers for your input guys

 

 

First of all, what is ETOPS?

 

I always knew it by its street name:

 

Engines Turning Or Passengers Swimming

Mmmh... another extremely complex issue to sort out here...

There is absolutely no "in short" to your interesting questions, but let's try to shrink as much as I'm able to..

 

First of all, what is ETOPS?

ETOPS (EXTENDED TWIN OPERATIONS) is the acronym created by ICAO to describe the operation of twin-engine turbine aircraft over a route that contains a point further than  60 minutes flying time from an Adequate Airport, at the approved single engine inoperative cruise speed (under still air ISA conditions).

Usually, for B777, the 60 minutes is considered to be a standard distance of 420 nm (because it is considered to fly 420kts in single engine ops).

The ETOPS entry point is the point en-route at which the aircraft exceeds 420 nm from the closest en-route Adequate Airport.

The ETOPS segment starts at the EEP and ends when the flight path is back and remains within 420 nm from the closest en-route Adequate Airport (img from the FAA site)

 

Now, how far from an Adequate Airport can we fly then?

From Wikipedia I copy/paste:

 

The following ratings are awarded under current regulations according to the capability of the airliner:

• ETOPS-75
• ETOPS-90
• ETOPS-120/138
• ETOPS-180/207
• ETOPS-240
• ETOPS->240

However, ratings for ETOPS type approval are fewer. They are:

• ETOPS-90, which keeps pre-ETOPS Airbus A300B4 legally operating under current rules
• ETOPS-120/138
• ETOPS-180/207, which covers 95% of the Earth's surface.
• ETOPS->180 to Design Limit

Again, usually, for 777 ops we can consider the 180/207 minutes depending on the Airline qualification.

 

So, this should pretty much define your planning then: You always have to be within 207 mins from an Adequate Airport

(ok, I lied, because you also have to take into consideration FUEL policies for ETOPS Alternate; ETOPS Alternate's weather; Aircaft technical restrictions and a bunch of other stuff that REALLY you don't wanna know at this stage).

 

Ok, but.... how do we use ETOPS on our 777s?

 

We simply.... DON'T

Ok,ok let me explain this.

ETOPS is a planning requirement.

Once the ETOPS flight plan is loaded into the FMC, we just follow it. As simple as that.

The requirement, though, is to check - BEFORE entering ETOPS segments - the weather at the Adequate Alternate Airports.

If the weather is BELOW minimums, you evaluate whether to continue or re-route NON-ETOPS.

 

A good techinique you could use, is to create a 420nm circle (which represents your 60mins flying single engine bla bla bla) around your ETOPS Adequate airports in the FMC FIX page. 15/20mins BEFORE reaching the very end of the circle you're still flying in, you ask for weather at the ETOPS airport behind you and ahead of you, together with other possible alternates suitable for you. Depending on how the weather looks like, you make a decision.

 

This is a REAL shrinkage of the whole ETOPS bull...t, but I hope it gave you some kind of answer

 

Perfect! Thank you  B)

Great post Fransesco! Thanks a lot.

Are any Emirates routes currently ETOPS limited?

Some video stuff to get the basics (high-level overview) with the basics of getting things into PFPX: