DX10 and FSAA: some personal observations

[Guest]

Just wanted to post a quick note of thanks to Jeroen for his original post.  Have followed his guidance and set up the Fixer and NI as recommended, using 8x FSAA and 8xSGSS.  Cured all shimmering except for a small amount on the VC screen of the Reality XP GNS 530.  Everything else looking great in the cockpit of the A2A 172, which had been a real challenge to me when it came to taming the shimmers.  I'm now beginning to get the point of this DX10 thing.  I don't have a lot of free time and would have been hard-pressed to test out all the Inspector setting combinations, so this was a huge help.  Again, many thanks!

 

You are very welcome! :smile: Glad at least one person has had some benefit of all this. ^_^

 

And btw that RXP GNS always seems to have problems with AA: even with DX9, while I had things setup pretty nicely, that RXP device would shimmer.

[SolRayz 392]

Thanks very much Paul - you are such a resource and so friendly.  I appreciate your help and can't wait to test it out after work.  

 

Did you attach a modified fsx.cfg or NI settings?  I couldn't find them...

 

Thanks again,

 

Scott

 

If it is not a bother Scott, can you detail the changes Paul made in your cfg and NI. Amazingly we have almost identical cfg's for the most part.

 

And from the performance numbers you posted earlier, we are in the same boat.

[smpetty 6]

If it is not a bother Scott, can you detail the changes Paul made in your cfg and NI. Amazingly we have almost identical cfg's for the most part.

 

And from the performance numbers you posted earlier, we are in the same boat.

 

SolRayz - I'll be happy too, but Paul didn't send me the revised versions of my fsx.cfg or make any specific reference to my NI settings.  I think that he meant to and if I do get a revised version I'll let you know for sure.  I'm going to try his other suggestions (outlined above) until then.

 

If you make a breakthrough, please let me know too.

 

Scott

[Paul J 349]

Sure did, Scott, first thing this morning.. Let me go digging....... :huh:

 

Darn! It's not in the post. Sorry. I'll post it here....

 

information overload!

information overload!

information overload!

information overload!

information overload!

information overload!

 

Hold on for a minute - I have to find the changed version.... Back in a minute.

 

 

 

I can only think that I didn't save it, Scott. Anyway - here are the suggested changes, with a note at the top,

and again - my apologies.  I hope it makes the difference you need.

 

All the Best

 

pj

 

[Piper9t3 25]

Hi all. I am new to the DX10 world and decided to get the DX10 Fixer in order to improve my FSX sessions.  I have read through the original OP and applied my settings in the fixer and made the appropriate changes in NI as per the original OP.  On my Free Flight screen the spinning aircraft which is selected always has a mild case of jaggies around them in DX10 regardless of which fixer setting I use.  This was never the case when in DX9.  The jaggies are not apparent when the sim loads up and you are in the VC but I am wondering is this normal to display the aircraft with jaggies in the Free Flight screen when using DX10?

[Christopher Low 5,355]

Yes.

[Guest]

 

 

The jaggies are not apparent when the sim loads up and you are in the VC but I am wondering is this normal to display the aircraft with jaggies in the Free Flight screen when using DX10?

 

As Christoper said: yes, but if it REALLY bothers you, you could turn on FXAA in Inspector (that's FXAA with an X!) and then the displayed aircraft will look a bit better. Still not perfect though and the effect (FXAA) also has a mild influence on FSX when you fly so I would keep it off. In the end it's all about flying in FSX and not looking at planes in the main menu. ^_^ Anyway, there is nothing wrong with your PC!

[odourboy 1,290]

 

 

Still not perfect though and the effect (FXAA) also has a mild influence on FSX when you fly so I would keep it off.

 

Are you making this recommendation based on a performance hit or the effect of the FXAA on image quality? Personally - I use it, and the hit is about a fixed 2% on the GPU (measured on a GTX 660).

[Sesquashtoo 2,846]

Really? So running FSX with anything less than SGSS is acceptable to you. That being said, if you want to remove any kind of shimmer you need to run SGSS in NI, which renders the cloud shader fix useless according to reports here.

 

I did some testing with Word Not Allowed's old cloud test, following his instruction specifically. The results are not good on my end. Specs can be seen on the side there, and I am using TML 1024 and LOD 4.5, mostly default config, except AF 14 HT disabled and BP=0.

 

dx9 using 8xS and 2xSGSS in NI and AF set internally (best visual to performance ratio on my system) 

25-28 fps and no stutter.

 

dx10 using Fixer 4x and 4xSGGS set in NI and AF set internally (most closely matches visuals of dx9)

15-18 fps and stuttery mess.

 

The only way I can achieve the same fps and stutter free experience in Word Not Allowed's cloud test, is to set 4x in Fixer and disable SGSS in NI....which results in shimmerfest in the VC and outside.

 

I concur that that dx10 is inherently smoother, and I can perceive it, particularly as a trackIR user. I also perceive it when banking. But, I am still not convinced that everyone is running as smoothly as they think.

Then clearly Ray, this 'fix' is not for your system. I have even increased my FSAA and SGSS to both '8'.  I still stay within the 27-30 FPS range. I am running OPUS at 70 miles for the clouds. Clearly, this seems to be a 'each system variance' here.  I have a Dell XPS running an  i7-975 Extreme at 4.02 GHz, and a EVGA Signatue Overclock  GTX 680 running with a custom overlock via their bundled software, and am having consistent high FPS results.  Yes...and smoothly...very, very smooth performance.  But hey, that is my system, and others will , or will not follow.

 

Post Edit:  Ray, I also, and always have run my system in HyperThread mode. Others have claimed that it reduces performance, but I have found that having 4 more 'virtual' cores and their threads, holds performance.  I had it off, and on.  On, is where I can maintain top tier....against some other's opinions on this matter.... Below I have included my FSX.cfg file. Compare mine to yours, top to bottom and see if any differences might add performance to your experience. Parse through it, line by line, and perhaps mimic what I have, and see what it does for your flight.  Cheers!

---------------------------------------------------------------

 

[JOBSCHEDULER]

AffinityMask=84   *****Do not add this line, it is here for your read, Ray.....(this is the setting for 4 core HyperThreading enabled)

[bufferPools]

PoolSize=0

[GRAPHICS]

HIGHMEMFIX=1

SHADER_CACHE_VERSION=2

SHADER_CACHE_PRIMED_10=1693458434

SHADER_CACHE_PRIMED=1693458434

D3D10=0

TEXTURE_MAX_LOAD=2048

TextureMaxLoad=30

NUM_LIGHTS=8

AIRCRAFT_SHADOWS=1

AIRCRAFT_REFLECTIONS=1

COCKPIT_HIGH_LOD=1

LANDING_LIGHTS=1

AC_SELF_SHADOW=1

EFFECTS_QUALITY=2

GROUND_SHADOWS=0

TEXTURE_QUALITY=3

IMAGE_QUALITY=0

See_Self=1

Text_Scroll=1

ForceFullScreenVSync=1

MultiSamplesPerPixel=8

MultiSampleQuality=8

[sOUND]

AmbientUIMusicVolume=-6.000000

PrimaryDevice={DEF00000-9C6D-47ED-AAF1-4DDA8F2B5C03}

VoiceDevice={DEF00002-9C6D-47ED-AAF1-4DDA8F2B5C03}

SOUND=1

SOUND_QUALITY=2

SOUND_LOD=0

UISound=1

AmbientUI=0

SOUND_FADER1=0.330000

SOUND_FADER2=0.340000

SOUND_FADER3=0.340000

SOUND_FADER4=1.000000

AmbientUIMusic=FSX01

[Display]

ChangeTime=4.000000

TransitionTime=4.000000

ActiveWindowTitleTextColor=255,255,255

ActiveWindowTitleBackGroundColor=0,28,140,64

NonActiveWindowTitleTextColor=255,255,255

NonActiveWindowTitleBackGroundColor=24,33,87,64

InfoUpperRightTextColor=255,0,0

InfoUpperRightBackGroundColor=0,0,0,0

InfoLowerLeftTextColor=255,255,255

InfoLowerLeftBackGroundColor=255,0,0,128

InfoLowerRightTextColor=255,255,255

InfoLowerRightBackGroundColor=255,0,0,128

InfoBrakesEnable=True

InfoParkingBrakesEnable=True

InfoPauseEnable=True

InfoSlewEnable=True

InfoStallEnable=True

InfoOverspeedEnable=True

BLOOM_EFFECTS=1

SKINNED_ANIMATIONS=1

TEXTURE_BANDWIDTH_MULT=120

UPPER_FRAMERATE_LIMIT=30

WideViewAspect=True

TextureMaxLoad=3

[Main]

User Objects=Airplane, Helicopter

SimObjectPaths.0=SimObjects\Airplanes

SimObjectPaths.1=SimObjects\Rotorcraft

SimObjectPaths.2=SimObjects\GroundVehicles

SimObjectPaths.3=SimObjects\Boats

SimObjectPaths.4=SimObjects\Animals

SimObjectPaths.5=SimObjects\Misc

SimObjectPaths.6=ORBX\FTX_AU\FTXAI_AIRCRAFT

SimObjectPaths.7=MyTraffic\Aircraft

ProcSpeed=8568

PerfBucket=7

Maximized=1

Location=-4,-4,1924,1160,\\.\DISPLAY1

HideMenuNormal=0

HideMenuFullscreen=1

FIBER_FRAME_TIME_FRACTION=0.15

[PANELS]

IMAGE_QUALITY=1

DEFAULT_VIEW=0

QUICKTIPS=1

PANEL_OPACITY=100

PANEL_MASKING=1

PANEL_STRETCHING=1

UNITS_OF_MEASURE=0

[Weather]

WindshieldPrecipitationEffects=1

MinGustTime=10

MaxGustTime=500

MinGustRampSpeed=1

MaxGustRampSpeed=200

MinVarTime=5

MaxVarTime=50

MinVarRampSpeed=10

MaxVarRampSpeed=75

TurbulenceScale=2.000000

WeatherServerAddress=fs2k.zone.com

WeatherServerPort=80

WeatherGraphDataInDialog=0

AdjustForMagVarInDialog=1

DynamicWeather=0

DownloadWindsAloft=0

DisableTurbulence=0

CLOUD_DRAW_DISTANCE=4

DETAILED_CLOUDS=1

CLOUD_COVERAGE_DENSITY=8

THERMAL_VISUALS=0

[CONTROLS]

Controls_Default=Standard

Controls_Current=Standard

KBDAIL=64

KBDELEV=64

KBDRUD=64

[TextInfo.1]

Latitude=1,1

Longitude=1,2

Altitude=1,3

Heading=1,4

AirSpeed=1,5

WindDirectionAndSpeed=1,6

[TextInfo.2]

FrameRate=1,1

LockedFrameRate=1,2

GForce=1,3

FuelPercentage=1,4

[TextInfo.3]

Latitude=1,1

Longitude=1,2

Altitude=1,3

Heading=1,4

AirSpeed=1,5

WindDirectionAndSpeed=1,6

FrameRate=2,1

LockedFrameRate=2,2

GForce=2,3

FuelPercentage=2,4

[slewTextInfo.1]

Latitude=1,1

Longitude=1,2

Altitude=1,3

Heading=1,4

AirSpeed=1,5

[slewTextInfo.2]

FrameRate=1,1

LockedFrameRate=1,2

[slewTextInfo.3]

Latitude=1,1

Longitude=1,2

Altitude=1,3

Heading=1,4

AirSpeed=1,5

FrameRate=2,1

LockedFrameRate=2,2

[DynamicHeadMovement]

LonAccelOnHeadLon=-0.020000

LonAccelOnHeadPitch=-0.010000

RollAccelOnHeadLat=0.010000

YawAccelOnHeadLat=-0.100000

RollAccelOnHeadRoll=0.100000

MaxHeadAngle=5.000000

MaxHeadOffset=0.300000

HeadMoveTimeConstant=1.000000

[VirtualCopilot]

VirtualCopilotActive=0

[uSERINTERFACE]

PageID=1

OpenATCOnCreate=0

SHOW_MISSION_CAPTIONS=1

PAUSE_ON_LOST_FOCUS=1

PROMPT_ON_EXIT=1

Map_Orientation=2

ShowAllACPaintSchemes=1

SelectAircraftManufacturer=All

SelectAircraftPublisher=All

SelectAircraftType=All

DisplayFuelAsWeight=0

[ATC]

ShowATCText=0

COMM_MSG_NONE_COLOR=FFFFFFFF

COMM_MSG_ATC_USER_COLOR=FFB6FFB6

COMM_MSG_USER_ATC_COLOR=FFFFD21B

COMM_MSG_ATC_AI_COLOR=FF00FF00

COMM_MSG_AI_ATC_COLOR=FFFF7840

AutoOpenAirTrafficWindow=1

UsePilotVoice=1

PilotVoice=262144

[PointOfInterestSystem]

CycleSetting=0

[sCENERY]

LENSFLARE=1

DAWN_DUSK_SMOOTHING=1

IMAGE_COMPLEXITY=4

SmallPartRejectRadius=1

[TrafficManager]

AirlineDensity=25

GADensity=25

FreewayDensity=20

ShipsAndFerriesDensity=0

LeisureBoatsDensity=0

IFROnly=0

AIRPORT_SCENERY_DENSITY=0

[TERRAIN]

TERRAIN_MAX_AUTOGEN_TREES_PER_CELL=4500            This is a great entry. Try it!

TERRAIN_MAX_AUTOGEN_BUILDINGS_PER_CELL=3000      This is a great entry Try it!

LOD_RADIUS=6.500000

MESH_COMPLEXITY=100

MESH_RESOLUTION=25

TEXTURE_RESOLUTION=29

AUTOGEN_DENSITY=4

DETAIL_TEXTURE=1

WATER_EFFECTS=6

SWAP_WAIT_TIMEOUT=10

[AContain]

ShowLabels=0

ShowUserLabel=0

ShowLabelManufacturer=1

ShowLabelModel=1

ShowLabelTailNumber=0

ShowLabelDistance=1

ShowLabelAltitude=1

ShowLabelAirline=0

ShowLabelAirlineAndFlightNumber=0

ShowLabelFlightPlan=0

ShowLabelContainerId=0

ShowLabelAirspeed=0

ShowLabelHeading=0

LabelDelay=1000

LabelColor=FFFF0000

[iNTERNATIONAL]

ASLAT=2

ASLON=1

MEASURE=0

[REALISM]

PFactor=1.000000

Torque=1.000000

GyroEffect=1.000000

CrashTolerance=1.000000

General=1.000000

UnlimitedFuel=False

TrueAirspeed=False

AutoCoord=False

RealMixture=False

StressDamage=True

GEffect=True

ManualLights=True

GyroDrift=False

CrashWithDyn=True

CrashDetection=True

AutoTrim=False

[sIM]

SYSCLOCK=1

[sTARTUP]

DEMO=0

SHOW_OPENING_SCREEN=0

STARTUP_DEMO=

LoadWindow=1

[FACILITIES]

COUNTRY=

STATE=

CITY=

GTL_BUTTON=1352

[Misc]

Com_Rate=7

[FlightPlanMap]

LineWidth=2

SHOW_AIRPORTS=1

SHOW_VORS=1

SHOW_NDBS=1

SHOW_APPROACHES=1

SHOW_INTERSECTIONS=1

SHOW_VICTOR=0

SHOW_JET=0

SHOW_AIRSPACE=1

SHOW_FLIGHTPLAN=1

SHOW_WEATHERSTATIONS=1

SHOW_WEATHERSYSTEMS=1

SHOW_DATATAGS=1

SHOW_TERRAIN=1

show_waypoints=1

show_airways=1

show_markers=1

show_volume_boundaries=1

show_ac_twr=1

[RWW_WEATHER_MAP]

SHOW_AIRPORTS=0

SHOW_VORS=0

SHOW_NDBS=0

SHOW_APPROACHES=0

SHOW_INTERSECTIONS=0

SHOW_VICTOR=0

SHOW_JET=0

SHOW_AIRSPACE=0

SHOW_FLIGHTPLAN=1

SHOW_WEATHERSTATIONS=1

SHOW_WEATHERSYSTEMS=1

SHOW_DATATAGS=1

SHOW_TERRAIN=1

[FSDREAMTEAM]

AntiPopUp=30

AltitudeCull=1

[MAPVIEW_MAP]

SHOW_AIRPORTS=1

SHOW_VORS=1

SHOW_NDBS=1

SHOW_APPROACHES=1

SHOW_INTERSECTIONS=0

SHOW_VICTOR=0

SHOW_JET=0

SHOW_AIRSPACE=1

SHOW_FLIGHTPLAN=1

SHOW_WEATHERSTATIONS=1

SHOW_WEATHERSYSTEMS=1

SHOW_DATATAGS=1

SHOW_TERRAIN=1

show_flight_history=1

[DISPLAY.Device.NVIDIA GeForce GTX 680.0]

Mode=1920x1200x32

Anisotropic=1

AntiAlias=1

[DISPLAY.Device.NVIDIA GeForce GTX 680.0.0]   **This second reference to my vid card is for DX10, and so I leave it in with no perf degrade.

AntiAlias=1

Mode=1920x1200x32

Anisotropic=1

[MULTIPLAYER]

condAccoutPassword=0

VoiceVolume=2.000000

[Piper9t3 25]

As Christoper said: yes, but if it REALLY bothers you, you could turn on FXAA in Inspector (that's FXAA with an X!) and then the displayed aircraft will look a bit better. Still not perfect though and the effect (FXAA) also has a mild influence on FSX when you fly so I would keep it off. In the end it's all about flying in FSX and not looking at planes in the main menu. ^_^ Anyway, there is nothing wrong with your PC!

Thanks guys.  Totally agree that the end result in the sim is what matters!  Having said that, how does a newbie like me really get to see the advantages of DX10?  I was really drawn to the fixer from reading about DX10 and how it manages memory more efficiently to mitigate OOM's.  Is there a typical scenario that can be loaded up to visually show off the capabilities of DX10? 

[Guest]

 

 

Is there a typical scenario that can be loaded up to visually show off the capabilities of DX10?

 

There is no concensus on this yet. ^_^ Some say DX10 actually looks better but the only differences I see are the water (and not everyone will call the water an improvement, although I like it) and the colors are a bit softer (while others called them more saturated...). Other than that DX10 performs slightly smoother with some slightly higher settings. I like the VC shadows, which is one of the reasons I switched to DX10. But other than that...

 

I personally can not imagine a scenario that you could load to visually show of the capabilities of DX10! Yes, you could turn on bloom and say there is no performance hit, but a lot of people have had ENB bloom for ages without a performance hit. (I don't use bloom because I don't like the effect.) Everything else just looks the same to me.

 

For me DX10 is all about a slightly (!) smoother flight and VC shadows. That's it and that's all. To me it's worth it though.

[Dash8Q4 4]

Very nice. I cant wait to try it soon!!!

Thank you

[smpetty 6]

Many thanks to Paul and Jeroen on their help and time. It is people like you that make me love AVSim forums.

 

I made all of the changes that were suggested but unfortunately I am still seeing some real slowdowns. With more testing I realized that it is ALL about the clouds. With light cloud cover or clear skies, I am pinned at 30fps even in busy scenery with traffic. But when there is heavy cloud cover, I drop down to 15-22 fps. No changes to my fsx.cfg file make a significant change in the cloud hit. I'm using REX textures and OpusFSX weather. I have tried dropping the REX textures to 512 or 1024 and it was no better than REX textures at 2048 or 4096. Any DX10 FSAA from 4X on up (with appropriate changes to NI) cause the cloud hit to occur. With 2X FSAA it is much less pronounced but everything shimmers.

 

I'm starting to wonder if this could be related to my GPU. I seem to remember hearing that the NVIDIA GTX 660 Ti could be problematic in some FSX settings... but I can't find confirming documentation to support that. For those of you who are also having less than stellar frame rates with fast systems, what graphics card are you using? Maybe I need to get GTX 680?

 

Thanks,

 

Scott

[odourboy 1,290]

 

 

I'm starting to wonder if this could be related to my GPU. I seem to remember hearing that the NVIDIA GTX 660 Ti could be problematic in some FSX settings... but I can't find confirming documentation to support that.

There must be 50 posts indicating higher settings SGSS settings (8xSGSS is very demanding) kill you GPU in clouds. Want to confirm it? Run the GPU monitor found in Nvidia Inspector (little icon 2nd down in the upper left corner IIRC). Stretch it out along the bottom of your screen and get rid of the non essential monitors (fan, temp..).Go flying in the clouds. See if your drop on FPS is related to your GPU being pinned at 100% utilization.

[MarkW 1,493]

Personally I like the bloom effects, you really notice it on aircraft reflections and lights.  Water is also quite nice although I personally like it turned down a bit a 2X Low