I flew online years ago with FS98. I thought it was fun ant first but I can rememberflights where the controller would disappear in the middle of the flight because he was called to dinner or something like that. I started reading about it when I bought FS9, but I could see that it was more trouble than it was worth ( for me) to get it started up and I think the ATC in FS9 is all that bad considering what it is doing.

Interesting topic. I can see there are many seeing the software trouble as an obstacle for flying online. So why is there not a word about IVAO's newly released software? Just a click and you're away. It works like a charm for me at least. I use to check Servinfo and as far as I can see, IVAO now has the biggest numbers of pilots and controllers flying whenever you check. I'm new in online flying, so I don't know so much about online history. But I can feel in the air there have been some kind of wars in earlier days and maybe still is. The best should be if Flightproject, VATSIM, IVAO and GlobalSim(?) all could fly in the same system. Then we should have more pilots & controllers and better be simulating the real world. Of course, it's not possible due to people's ego. It's like asking for peace on earth. But at least one can dream.BR/Jan Bergwall

Is everyone here talking on-line=VATSIM?If you are not on-line for the ATC it

When I flew (with msfs2k2) on VATSIM I always planned the flight according to where the controllers where active. Germany usually have lots of controllers of good quality so I usually ended up flying there. I rarely had an issue with unfriendly controllers. The few problems I had was controllers refusing to use voice with me for no apparent reason although they spoke with others. When I asked them if they couldn't hear me they replied by text that they did and then continued by text and speaking with others...I had more issues with pilots who would overtake on the taxiway or didn't respect the ongoing communication between pilot and controller. That drove me nuts! :)Anyway, can't wait for Joel to get Squawkbox 3 going and it doesn't seem to be that far in the distant. Those who wait...

>Is everyone here talking on-line=VATSIM?>>If you are not on-line for the ATC it

Regards connecting to VATSIM using the SB2.35/SBrelay and AVC method - it will work just fine provided you follow the setup insteuctiond properly and to the letter. Most setup failures are caused by minor things such as not entering the FSUIPC reg codes properly or firewall /AV setup.I have flown 500 + hours on Vatsim with FS2000/2/4 with very few problems - now I'm testing SB3 and I can say - yes its easier and smoother and yes I hope it's released to all ASAP- but there is no point in Joel releasing it untill it's bug free.Re IVAO - not knocking them at all but IMHO the standards are better on VATSIM.Also IVAO tend towards Europe(mainland) I tend to fly either UK or US and Vatsim give generally better coverage in those places.GA flying - well I've never yet flown a modern airliner - neither do I flown into the major hubs(EGLL/EGKK/KLAX etc), most of my flying is using military twin props or (recently) helicopters from smaller GA fields or military fields. THis is no problem with VATSIM and 90% of the time I get live ATC.If more people join there will be more traffic , more ATC - a better time for everyone.To those who haven't tried I say - Give it a go- it really isn't that hard to get setup online - and dial up is good enough- should not present any problem.Dave

Ah, but I DO fly online. I'm on almost every Sunday from 11:30 to 2:30 or so. I fly with a really nice bunch of guys who all like to fly in Alaska so that's where almost all our flights are. I sometimes fly on other days; and have most of the time met up with others online. What bothers me about it is that, having graduated to TeamSpeak, others DON'T have TS and want to type all the time. Since my setup is sort of either/or regarding typing, I find that situation difficult. Not to mention the fact that if you're typing responses you have a window open all the time and that takes space on your monitor. For those who say that it takes too much to get online; Wha? Que paso? One only has to select multi and get a join, then it's off and away. Takes all of 30 seconds. The worst part of FS9 is that there is no way to store more than one server id in the program, thus one has those little bits of paper stuck in various places. If you find the (virtual) skies bare and uninteresting why then we must be waiting for YOU to join us. It might be trite; it's still true that if you never go there you'll never see what IS there.Finally, I will admit a sort of bias against VATSIM. I fly GA planes almost exclusively and VATSIM doesn't seem to cater to my type. Note I didn't say they don't; but the PERCEIVED system doesn't. As a confirmed bush pilot I am sort of agin the concept of controllers "ruinin'" my life. Don't know aboot the rest o' the worl' but the original AK bush pilots weren't big on flight controllers either.

3 reasons: 1) dial-up connection with a max rate of 3 kb/sec 2) No AI traffic; I really like UT 3) Radar Contact will be in v4 in January so I can finally dump the somewhat ignorant MS ATC

An addition to my previous above.............Altho text is still given as the default comms mode on VATSIM the fact is text contacts are nowadays really more the exception rather than the rule - I can't remember when I last had to contact ATC by text ( and I fly online averagely 3 to 4 times a week).THe thing is that text is always there if needed .Dave

>c) There is very very very rarely a controller where you want>to go. Like somebody else said, you end up taking off, doing>the flight, and then find the 1st ATC you actually speak to is>the approach controller or tower controller where your>landing.>Who will then scream at you for not contacting them earlier (2 seconds after coming online with you on short final in a crosswind), or will completely ignore you reporting in and go offline without telling anyone.Yes, I've encountered both more than once (the second quite often in fact) in several phases of flight.At one time I got told to hold on a taxiway by a ground controller who then went afk. Half an hour later (and I wasn't the only one waiting on him) we started moving thinking he'd disappeared and immediately he starts screaming he'd not given permission to move...Powertrip?

Hello!>Germany usually have lots of controllers of good quality so I>usually ended up flying there. Thanks for the kind words, very much appriciated!>When I asked them if they couldn't>hear me they replied by text that they did and then continued>by text and speaking with others...Well, that happened quite often in the good

I put this is the other post. sorry if you've read it already.I do fly on line and why? For me it's because I find VATSIM more enjoyable than 2k2's ATC. Sure I have to go through a set routine to get squawkbox up and running, but it's not that much of an issue. I enjoy the fact that I have to pre-plan my flights, file a flightplan, get it approved and, best of all, have to sometimes make changes. I'm not a real pilot but presume that real pilots have to obey ATC's instructions.I'm new at VATSIM and so don't always have all the SID/STARS available. I've always found that by including this info in my flight plans controllers are happy to vector me to the active. Without exception I've found controllers to be patient and friendly. When I've made an error a simple 'Sorry' keeps things happy and friendly.My system is not the best - P4 1.4G, GeForce2 64meg and 256M RAM. I've got Squawkbox, WxRE and FS Nav all running at once and, mostly, it's ok.Some people have complained that there're not always controllers on duty where and when they want to fly. Why should there be? They don't get paid. It costs nothing to use VATSIM. Some controllers may equally complain that there are no pilots flying where they want to control. For me freeware and the free use of peoples' time requires a little compromise from all parties concerned. More compromise generally might just make for a better world for everyone.Hope to see you sometime in the VATSIM skies!GavinGPB964EPWA

Because to 'fly online' you'd probably have to 'fly' first.

Hey all.I remember my first experience with VATSIM, it sucked.I was in such a rush it seemed, trying to get things working, trying to fit in with the flow, hoping I didn't seem an idiot to the pros....Needless to say, I didn't catch on with the routine right away, and that was entirely my own fault. I connected a few times here and there over a period of a few months, but rather than do the smart thing, and just sit back and observe, watch how the real pros did it, I always tried to jump right in. I've always been one to do things the hard way.... :-lolEventually, I really can't pinpoint when, but eventually, it all clicked. It was certainly a series of steps, each time getting a little better than the last, becoming a little more sure of myself, but it finally did happen. Now, there's no looking back for me. Being a part of VATSIM has taught me more about aviation than I ever would have thought to learn. It provides a real motivation to do and learn things you may not otherwise. I learn something new with each and every flight I take now. Not to mention, the real satisfaction that comes when you truly nail that crosswind landing, and have friends around to share it with. (Or the laughs to share when you end up in the grass :-lol )I would encourage everyone to give it a try...and I offer to help absolutely anyone here who is having trouble connecting. My e-mail is available through the forum, please feel free.

Hello All, Well, I think I've read just about every post to this thread. I use to fly on line, before FS got nearly as good as it is now. I think I started with FS5, (I could be wrong on that LOL), but FS98 was just about all flying on line for me.That was back when SATCO was the 'in' on line server and, of course, as we know, SATCO went by the way of the road, and Harvy Stein and group started VATSIM, and what a great project it became.Now Harv is a real world ATP pilot who has never bent a wing, and one fine guy, and he has put together a great product, which just needs some gentle help from the new SB which is in beta. Most of the seasoned controllers at VATSIM who are 'good' and understanding, have just about seen it all, and the ones who have stuck with it, have developed a patern of dealing with most everybody, novices and pros.Why I no longer fly on line? Time and connections. with all the programs I DO fire up just to fly, adding in SB and SB host and such and voice all seperately, well, it just gets too much and by the time I've set up, something happens and I have to trash can the flight. I do believe that when the new SB is released for final, I'll try again, as I understand the 'meld' between real world and 'simulation' and there is a distinct difference.A real pro controller who can see that I know what I am doing, will expect ME to do it by the numbers and I expect no less from him. At the same time, a less experienced controller, I cut lots of slack to, perhaps give a suttle hint to, and never complain . . .he or she is learning and we all have to learn.I've had a blast on SATCO and VATSIM at times, (I was an officer of SATCO and sometimes would take a little privlidged license ), but on VATSIM, (although Harv asked me to participate in my old position, thanks Harv,) by that time it had gotten very political and sort of turned me off . . . Im sure things are much different now, as the group just grows and grows and has some excellent training methods.Yep, when the new SB comes out, with voice only, and all the bells and whistles, I'll give it one more try . . .and if it doesn't take a half hour to set it up and get it going, well, I may just burn up my satellite line again.Best to all,Clayhttp://www.dreamfleet2000.com/gfx/images/F...ers/Dopke01.jpgClayton T. Dopke (Clay)Major, USAF (retired)"Drac"