Except for the few hours of a special event, there are far too few controllers online when I want to fly. I don't mind all the rules and such, there's simply not enough traffic to keep most controllers busy enough to want to stay online or they have something else they have to do and it's "byebye for now!" and the skys are generally very empty in many parts of the globe. I think the software is quite good and I never had any problems with my broadband connections, JUST WAY TOO FEW CONTROLLERS in the skys............ PS I hate "flocks of geese flying"......little clubs of planes flying as if mama is leading them to water. Yuk!Randy Jura, KPDX

VATSIM is a brilliant concept, and I tried it for a while, but eventually lost interest in it because I simply didn't care for having my choice of destinations being driven entirely by where the ATC happened to be when I felt like flying. I would at least fly in the special events if not for the effect the large numbers of planes which those events tend to attract have on my framerates. When you're pushing 2-5 fps (at best) on final it is just about impossible to do anything other than land on autopilot, and that is not my idea of fun. If this particular issue has been addressed by the new clients coming out in the near future, I will definitely be back to give it another try.Mark Kuebeler

"Some people have complained that there're not always controllers on duty where and when they want to fly. Why should there be? They don't get paid. It costs nothing to use VATSIM".Just to answer this question as I have seen this same thought in another post on another thread, and I am one of "those" who mentioned the lack of coverage as being why I don't use online.However, I don't think I complained about this, and certainly didn't complain about Vatsim or the controllers who donate their services-I don't think anyone else did either. What I did say is this makes the "reality" of the sim less for me than the canned Fs Atc does, which is why I choose not to fly online (I think that was the original question?). I think that is an important distinction. I use fs to practice for real flights I am making-terrain awareness, airport layout, weather, and yes atc procedures and handling that I might expect in the real world. If I am requesting my clearance from a controller 300 miles away, or not talking to ground control, or picking up my clearance in the air from the wrong controller on the wrong freq., and not being switched to the expected controllers in the sectors depicted on my charts- that loses a lot of reality for me. When I take a real flight as I did a few weeks ago from my home airport in Michigan-fly to Mississippi, Louisiana, Florida, South Carolina and back-all places I haven't been before-I want to practice flying what I will find on the sim first-with the appropriate air traffic controllers,sectors, and frequencies that I will meet in real life. When landing in KAND, South Carolina, I want to be given a real approach with vectors, and not just told to go on my own because the nearest controller is 300 miles away and not familiar. When I go to takeoff, I want to request my clearance from the on field FSS (yes they still exist) like real life. I want to follow the plate and charts and look up the frequencies and talk to the appropriate controllers at airports in the correct sequence. I want to be handed off 3 times within a few seconds to different controllers when I fly thru a multi sectored area as I did in an area between Georgia and South Carolina (yes-fs has most of the boundries right), and jogged in between Indy Center and local approach controllers when flying thru Kentucky.I have nothing against online-in fact the reality of talking to a real person can't be beat. But the canned Fs Atc just gives me an experience that matches real life better at this point.I suppose if you are flying heavy jets in the sim and flying to major airports like JFK then the experience will be more real online-at least when near the major airport. If you are flying GA aircraft and actually avoiding most of those heavy airports though-it probably will not be, at least in my experience.Nothing against online-if it makes it more real for you go for it.In my case it does not-when and if it does-I will be quick to join in.http://mywebpages.comcast.net/geofa/pages/rxp-pilot.jpg

>Well I get my on-line fix from IL 2. Not necessarily dog>fighting but just plain flying around under bridges/through>hangars, between oil rigs or formation flying.>>Guess I could do that in FS 2004 too but the ww 2 props are>kind of made for that type of flying and the visuals are so>much better and handling just feels right.You think the visuals in IL2 are better then FS2004?Wow. I have never heard that before. An interesting point of view.IMO, the IL-2 series looks kind of like crap. Boring terrain, many FMs change every patch, aircraft models aren't too high poly, the weapons sounds suck, and almost all of the aircraft sound VERY VERY similar (a HUGE disappointment, IMO).Where the IL-2 series does "sort of" makes up for this is in the immersion of the dogfighting and such online. Been in an IL-2 squad myself since the original was released a long time back and having a blast. :)I wish the IL-2/AEP/PF fms were as good as the flight model on the RA Spit though. :(

>Nothing against online-if it makes it more real for you go for>it.>In my case it does not-when and if it does-I will be quick to>join in.Hey Geoffa,I used to feel exactly the same way, and please understand, I am not trying to convince you of anything with this post.VATSIM can be pretty boring at times, no other aircraft visible, not controllers, etc. I'll tell ya though, 20 minutes spent going through the departure sequence out of the Los Angeles basin during prime-time is often so rewarding, I don't care if I'm on my own the rest of the way...lol.Different strokes I guess...In terms of coverage, well, I just don't see it as being all that bad. I rarely go a flight without coverage on at least the departure or arrival end, and quite often I get both. There are certain areas that are busier and more well covered than others, ORD, LAX, ATL, JFK....and others not so well (I'm looking at you MSP)...Anyway, for you, I understand that as a real pilot, maybe this doesn't really do all that much for you. But for those simmers who aren't up to that level, it doesn't get any better. I am one of those.

Might be the fact that every Real life ATC guy/gal I know can't get up off the floor from laughing so hard when VATSIM is mentioned... Take it for what it's worth.I'm sure there are some Real World ATC that think its totaly real, though I personally have yet to meet any.:-outtahttp://publish.hometown.aol.com/p3superb/i...s/sign_name.jpgThere is a fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness".- unknown"My daddy gives me up, to fight for you"- a US Military Members Child

Hello,I am just a sim pilot. I have flown my sim for about 2 years. I have become "adequate" as a GA and "big iron" sim pilot in that I can plan and fly routes both with FMS and manually. The sim has really become fun for me! I use FS2004 (v9.1) with a lot of addons - plus GOFLIGHT equipment. I also use Project Magenta for 737/Airbus sim on a three computer network. I have tried online flying and it is OK - but I live in the KCHS area and cannot find control here. If I choose to fly where there is control, I have to "test fly" the area with just my sim ATC to learn the area (approaches, gates, etc). That is why I actually prefer Radar Contact as my ATC. It is very challenging for ME! Maybe not for a real pilot but lets face it - a lot of us are flying this sim because we either cannot afford a real plane or are afraid to "go there". The RC3.1 does not "forgive" my mistakes and is probably as nasty as many of the controllers that other posters have refered to! After I use the RC to fly a new area, I then am ready to give the online a try with the controllers. I have had a pretty good relationship with the European controllers when I post that I am a NEWBIE at this. One more point - yesterday, while practicing at my local airport (KCHS) while online with no control, I noticed a blip on my IVAO TCAS.It was a German flier landing at MY AIRPORT with a Learjet. I parked at the gate and watched him land and park right next to me. We spoke briefly via UNICOM. Once in a while, the online experience can be quite rewarding.Thanks for your time and patience,Ron SagelNear KCHS

There is that, but my main reasons:1. Too complicated to get up and running.2. Performance hit.3. Why have online ATC if you have to use a keyboard to do ATC readback?4. Performance hit.5. Not enough traffic.6. Spotty coverage.7. Bad experience with controllers.8. Does not suspend reality better than in-built FSATC.9. Way to complicated to get up and running.I've repeated some of these more than once to emphasize my main gripes. I will say though that there are noteable exceptions to each of these issues. Fly-ins are spectacular, but too rare and hard to fit everyone's schedule. I have high hopes for future versions where everyone will be on voice command. Until then, I'm on Radar Contact.

>Might be the fact that every Real life ATC guy/gal I know>can't get up off the floor from laughing so hard when VATSIM>is mentioned... >>Take it for what it's worth.>>I'm sure there are some Real World ATC that think its totaly>real, though I personally have yet to meet any.Man, I don't know where you're getting your info from.Vatsim is full of real world ATC.Just about every Vatsim ARTCC has at least one current or former Real world ATC on its roster. And many current members are also currently in training to be real world ATC.Regards.Ernie.Vatsim Albuquerque ARTCC.

Hi Rightseat -----in answer to your list.............1: Works perfectly IF and only IF you follow the setup instructions properly.2:What performance hit ?3:You don't have to use keyboard - 99% comms use voice.4:What performance hit ?? 5:Go where the traffic is .6:The more people participate the better it will get(Chicken and egg situation)7: Tough!8:Neither are remotely real but this is way better than talking to a machine.9:Repeat - follow instructions properly. Really - most problems are down to failure to read the readmes included with the software - or failure to follow properly the setup instructions- my 14 year old grand son managed to set up on his own with zero problems -I reckon -if he can anyone can.Dave

xxoo

>Might be the fact that every Real life ATC guy/gal I know can't get>up off the floor from laughing so hard when VATSIM is mentioned... Hello,Perhaps you may want to give the VACC-SAG area (Switzerland, Austria and Germany) a visit. We have more than a dozen real-world ATC on our active controller list, ranging from military tower guys up to Upper area controllers at Rhein Radar. Same on the pilots side, it starts with our VACC-SAG director who is an active pilot at Netjets Europe and former Swiss ERJ145 Copilot.Yours,Martin Georg/EDDFVACC-SAG PR & Events Coordinator *** mailto:[email protected]http://vatsim.pilotmedia.fi/statusindicato...r=SAG01&a=a.jpg

Some here may not realize that you dont have to be a licensed Pilot to join AOPA (Aircraft Owners & Pilots Assn.) But, I joined two years ago. The magazine you get with a subscription is fantastic. The website you gain access to is also Fantastic, things like free AOPA Hats, etc, get you involved in discussions with real Pilots everywhere you go. At Fullerton Muni, KFUL I sit with the Pilots for Saturday Breakfast, and am accepted in their group. Have had a few flights with some, after volunteering to help wash and wax their aircraft. Last flight, the Pilot turned the controls over to me at 1000' . . . Flew to Oceanside, inland to Salton Sea, and north to San Bernadino where he landed for lunch. After all, it can mean motivation to go for your license. Bob

Jeff"Might be the fact that every Real life ATC guy/gal I know can't get up off the floor from laughing so hard when VATSIM is mentioned... Take it for what it's worth.I'm sure there are some Real World ATC that think its totaly real, though I personally have yet to meet any."What a negative and insulting post. Is that the purpose of our forum, to ridicule others? Debate, discuss and by all means disagree, but to try to make people look or feel stupid? What have you achieved? I am neither a real pilot or a real ATC controller. I just have a plane game on my PC. I can't imagine that airline pilots around the world are worried about losing their jobs to me.I think the free service offered by VATSIM can make our hobby more enjoyable for some. We know it's not real - it's a computer game. For those that don't like it for the many reasons offered above - fine. We don't have to sink to the level of ridicule to express our different opinions.I hope that your opinion doesn't prevent any current or future controllers from carrying on/joining. While it may make no difference to you, it may affect my enjoyment of VATSIM.Gavin

Well said Gavin.Ya know, if you're gonna let some anecdotal comments prevent you from enjoying VATSIM, or even giving it a shot, well, more power to ya...you're only selling yourself short of a really good time. I've not read a single thing in this thread that would make a strong enough argument to keep me away from VATSIM, but, whatever floats your boat I guess..VATSIM sits with 40K active members as of now...with SB3, I'm sure that number will nearly double. I wouldn't miss it for the world.